Google Custom Search Engine (CSE) Integration...

[Master_Cylinder]

I just requested this as a MOD but it might be worth adding to the core too.

There would need to be a place in the ACP to add the CSE ID code that you get from Google; maybe a checkbox to search Google instead of the forum might be easy and handy or optionally you could put the forum results above the Google results.

If an admin doesn't add a CSE ID, it would function as it does normally.


Discuss...

[Meis2M]

+1

[Pony99CA]

I believe that phpBB already supports Search plug-ins, so the better way would be for somebody to write a Google Custom Search plug-in. We shouldn't add items to the ACP for specific third-party features; we should abstract a way so that plug-ins or extensions can take advantage of them.

Steve

[Master_Cylinder]

I might agree if CSE wasn't nearly a standard now days. We're adding a third party wysiwyg editor in the core I don't see why a better search can't be in the core too.

[Pony99CA]

I might agree if CSE wasn't nearly a standard now days. We're adding a third party wysiwyg editor in the core I don't see why a better search can't be in the core too.

There's a difference between adding a component to the core and adding an option for a specific third-party service to the ACP. phpBB 3.1 is using Symfony components in the core, which is fine. Adding an ACP option to support some third-party service is not, in my opinion.

For example, phpBB supports ReCAPTCHA with a plug-in that is distributed with the default phpBB package. That plug-in allows you to enter your ReCAPTCHA key (or whatever they call it) in the ACP, but the piece that allows entering the key is part of the plug-in; it isn't hard-coded in the ACP itself. That's the better way of doing things. So if you want phpBB to distribute a Google Custom Search plug-in with the default package, I would have no problems with that; I only have a problem hard-coding support for it directly in the ACP, especially when phpBB already supports Search plug-ins.

But, to ensure that I'm understanding you, my presumption is that you want Google Custom Search to be used when people click the standard Search link in phpBB, right? If so, phpBB already allows Search plug-ins as I mentioned, and may even include some others in the default package. For example, phpBB.com uses (or used?) Sphinx as its search provider, so there may well be a Sphinx plug-in distributed with phpBB now. Google Custom Search should be handled the same way. (If you want the plug-in to offer an option to search the Web instead of the board, that may be possible, too, but I don't know that much about the Search plug-ins.)

Steve

P.S. Regarding the WYSIWYG editor, I beleive that the developers are at least considering an architecture to allow the board's admin to choose which editor (or editors?) are available. If so, while phpBB may be distributed with one WYSIWYG editor, there may still be support for others.

[Master_Cylinder]

I'm considering that CSE should be in the core and that admins can choose which they want by entering a CSE ID...

[Pony99CA]

I'm considering that CSE should be in the core and that admins can choose which they want by entering a CSE ID...

Yes, I understood that from your first post. It would be nice, though, if you answered my question to ensure that we're on the same page:

But, to ensure that I'm understanding you, my presumption is that you want Google Custom Search to be used when people click the standard Search link in phpBB, right?

If that's right, consider the following analogy:

Presume that car stereos aren't similar. Driver A wants a car from Honda with a Sony stereo. So he requests that Honda add specific support for a Sony stereo. What happens to Drive B who wants a car from Honda with a Pioneer stereo that doesn't fit in the Sony slot?

Now consider that the car maker includes a standard-sized slot for stereos and tells stereo makers to make their stereos work in that slot. Driver A can have a Sony, Driver B can have a Pioneer and nothing precludes Honda from pre-installing a Sony or a Pioneer in their cars.

You're asking for the former; I'm suggesting that the latter makes more sense -- and, in this case, the latter already exists I believe. If it does exist, it would be foolish for the developers to add space for the CSE ID directly into the ACP instead of providing a Google plug-in.

From an admin point of view, it won't make much difference (especially if the Google plug-in ships with phpBB). Instead of just entering the CSE ID, the admin will have to select which plug-in to use, click a Configure button and that plug-in will provide the field to enter the CSE ID. It's a couple of extra clicks, but it's not like you'll be changing that a lot, so who cares?

That's basically how CAPTCHA plug-ins work today (look at the ReCAPTCHA plug-in), so why should phpBB build in support for only one search provider instead of allowing support for many? It doesn't matter how "standard" you think Google Search is, either -- there are other search backends and some people don't like Google.

By all means, ship a Google Search plug-in with phpBB, but don't just add this to the ACP.

Steve

[Master_Cylinder]

I'm considering that CSE should be in the core and that admins can choose which they want by entering a CSE ID...

Yes, I understood that from your first post. It would be nice, though, if you answered my question to ensure that we're on the same page:

But, to ensure that I'm understanding you, my presumption is that you want Google Custom Search to be used when people click the standard Search link in phpBB, right?

That would have been nice...and to answer that question, which I thought was rhetorical and the answer clear in the request. Yes. If the admin has entered a CSE ID in the ACP search section, then when a user clicks on search it would use CSE. If not, then it uses the default. There are other ways/options like a check box or adding the CSE results after the forum results (not good for large forums), I'm just suggesting supporting CSE in the core.

I don't care about your car analogy but, I guess, if the devs add CSE (which *is* the most popular search plugin) and another user wants Bing, they'd have to get an Extension. I can live with that. Also, many car manufactures do not use a standard radio size, you have to get a 3rd party adapter plate/wiring harness to install a 3rd party radio.

I know what you're suggesting but since the odds are against many people wanting Bing I think it's overkill to try to support them all, as plugins, when CSE is so popular. It's up to the devs how (IF) they want to implement it and I don't really care how they do it. If they decide against it, completely, then I can live with an Extension which somebody will surely make.

[Master_Cylinder]

If you REALLY want to stick with the car radio analogy, what I'm proposing is that car manufacturer (phpBB) support a budget radio (stock search engine) and a premium radio (CSE) and if the owners (admins) want a 3rd party radio (other search engines) then they can get a faceplate/harness adapter (Extension) and that's it.

[Pony99CA]

I'm considering that CSE should be in the core and that admins can choose which they want by entering a CSE ID...

Yes, I understood that from your first post. It would be nice, though, if you answered my question to ensure that we're on the same page:

But, to ensure that I'm understanding you, my presumption is that you want Google Custom Search to be used when people click the standard Search link in phpBB, right?

That would have been nice...and to answer that question, which I thought was rhetorical and the answer clear in the request. Yes. If the admin has entered a CSE ID in the ACP search section, then when a user clicks on search it would use CSE. If not, then it uses the default.

Nope, it wasn't rhetoric. I just wanted to be sure that you were talking about searching the board, not adding an external Web search area (which you mentioned as an option). So we're on the same page.

I know what you're suggesting but since the odds are against many people wanting Bing I think it's overkill to try to support them all, as plugins, when CSE is so popular. It's up to the devs how (IF) they want to implement it and I don't really care how they do it. If they decide against it, completely, then I can live with an Extension which somebody will surely make.

Of course you can live with it -- but it's not just about you. And it's not just about Bing, either -- phpBB already supports other Search backends (like Sphinx) as plug-ins, I believe.

However, after looking around, what they may not support is a UI to customize the Search plug-in (like CAPTCHAs have now). So the current Search plug-ins probably just have an adapter layer that lets the phpBB front end call the search backends the same way (in a way similar to the DataBase Access Layer -- DBAL -- that phpBB has).

All that goes to say is that adding a UI for the search plug-ins might be more complicated than I thought, but the developers can use the CAPTCHA plug-ins as a model. I wish that a developer would weigh in on how the current Search plug-in system worked to clarify this.

So, other than the fact that you don't care about other plug-ins, do you have any technical objections to a Search plug-in system as long as a Google Custom Search plug-in is included with phpBB by default? Did you look at how users can set up ReCAPTCHA like I suggested? If so, wouldn't having a system like that support your desire to have Google Custom Search while also supporting other search backends? It would also allow the possibility of additional Google CSE customization without littering the ACP with third-party-specific controls hard-coded in.

Steve