[RFC] Include barebone template with every release

[ecwpa]

I'm sure we discussed this before but can't find the resolution to this issue.

The problem
Currently phpBB include 2 templates, both of them have their own styling and recieve quite a few changes in HTML, CSS or Javascript code with every release. The problem with this is that not all themes are based on this two themes. Templete designers have to look at each individual change for those and adapt it to their own template.

Not to mention that if you want to make a theme from scratch you need to take one of those two templates and "clean" them up EVERY TIME a new version is released. This is the reason why so many themes look like prosilver, which I kinda see as a problem.

Proposal
So, the idea is having a new theme, a barebone one. Minimal or no styling, no classes, nothing. Just a working blank theme which we can guarantee is up to date.

it doesn't have to be part of the installation but it should be released with each version. I'm not sure how much extra work this means to the phpBB team but I would really appreciate this.

[hjpotter92]

Definitely a +1 to this. Custom styles are always welcome on boards. Not everyone wants to go through all the template files.

[DavidIQ]

I'm not sure there will be a whole lot of benefit from this. There aren't very many styles that aren't based on either prosilver or subsilver2 and that's not really a bad thing. The ones that aren't probably make up less than 1% of all styles and the reason this is the case is not because the barebones style you're talking about is not available. Having one would mean that the style author has to come up with all structure and all styling on their own to make sure everything looks right and, contrary to what the person above me just said, would mean that they would have to initially come up with the style and structure for all template files, something that would take quite a bit of time.

In looking at other forum software most styles/themes are derived from their default style as well so it's not like there is something really broken in how we release our default styles. If there is a style that needs updating the Styles Team provides a list of all the style changes anyways so not having a barebones style is definitely not the reason styles don't get updated.

If the Styles Team wants to take this up as something they provide separately then fine but IMHO it would be a lot of time spent on something with very little benefit.

[Pony99CA]

Theoretically, couldn't we make ProSilver inherit from the "bare bones" style? Of course, if that would prevent people inheriting from ProSilver, that would be bad.

Steve

[DavidIQ]

Even if that wasn't an issue all of the template files would have to be copied and the style classes added to them so we end up with prosilver since the style classes wouldn't be in the barebones style. Could of course use IDs for styling instead but that sounds like a nightmare of a stylesheet.

[ecwpa]

I now understand your point about classes. Maybe that's too much.

Let me be more clear about my idea:

Imagine a template package called "barebone". Now, imagine you made and mantain 25 different templates for phpBB. Currently every time there is a new phpBB releases you need to update the code on those templates MANUALY one by one. But, if there is a barebone template I can just download it, replace all the files with barebone's themes and that's it, something like the changed files for phpBB.

[EXreaction]

With template inheritance, you don't include the template files you don't change off of the style you inherit from (e.g. prosilver), if you just change the CSS, you do not even need to include any template files in the release package.

[callumacrae]

The prosilver HTML can hardly be considered barebones, though.

[tbackoff]

I'm with EXreaction, template inheritance takes care of this problem. Whether or not prosilver's HTML can be improved is probably another RFC.

[EXreaction]

The prosilver HTML can hardly be considered barebones, though.

I agree, but I'm not clear exactly what the purpose for having a barebones style is from this RFC, all my understanding of the RFC is would be to reduce work when updating, which template inheritance (mostly) takes care of for most styles.