[RFC] Responsive layout

[nextgen]

Sorry for reactivate this topic but I think that a very important question is being forget. What about the time lost by click in "Show the full style" or similar?

I used the Artodia Mobile style for a while and I think that is functional but I don't want to use this style, I want my full style, with all the options. It is my opinion and is not a universal opinion, but I think that the new mobile users don't want a lite style, they want a full style but more adaptable to their mobile browsers.

At this moment I'm using Wordpress with a responsive theme and I feel good with this.

I only am registered here for support the Arty request. Please, make me happy LOL. (It is only a joke)

Now seriously, I think that is a good option in the new phpBB.

PD: I tested in desktop browser and in a mobile browser my installation of Wordpress with a responsive theme and the difference of time is five seconds, with cache, and about seven or eight seconds without cache.

I use a Sony Xperia Neo V (is a very bad mobile phone to see web quickly) with the default mobile browser.

PD2: Sorry for my bad english.

Greetings!!

These insinuating an extra style in the phpBB package?, something like they have in vbulletin.
Also could use a framework to optimize the style code and also make it compatible with mobile devices

[hanakin]

not really sure why speed is a concern if your talking responsive you can serve a specific style sheet you want based on device type utilizing media quereis this gives you full control over the ammont of data being passed. The smaller the window the less/smaller the size of your actual page would be anyways if your truley using responsive design patterns. elements in phpbb that require images now would not necessarily need them on a mobile device as the window is too smal for the theme to be effective anyway.

As long as you bench the rendered result for each device mobile device you should be fine

The argument I would make is for the best way to prevent the content of a forum to the user on a phone as the forum concept does not really fit well in such a small device using the standards of prosilver. The overhead may be too large until the UI is redeveloped into simplified/semantic structure.

[Oleg]

I would support a fluid width layout, "responsive" or otherwise.

[imkingdavid]

I agree with what was said before, that whatever we decide should not be a "lite" style. By that, I don't mean it shouldn't be lighter in terms of load and bandwidth, but it should simply reorganize all (or at least most) of the functionality, currently available in the full style, in a way that is more easily accessible, rather than removing it completely. I understand that some things may be difficult to implement in a style that is optimized for a mobile device, but we should try to get as much as we can in a user-friendly interface.

In terms of the question of a new mobile style vs making prosilver responsive, I vote for the latter. If I understand correctly, a new mobile style would require re-implementing all current functionality, whereas making prosilver responsive would simply require reorganizing the current content based on screen resolution. Also, a new style would be yet another thing for the development team and extension authors to support; new functionality already has to be implemented on prosilver and subsilver, and with a new style, that adds a third place the same thing would have to be implemented. As such, extensions would likely not add support for it, making browsing via mobile on that style impractical due to the lack of functionality.

[hanakin]

Not sure I agree with the last statement about the dev & extensions as either way you are going to have to change a lot of the code for prosilver inorder to make it responsive. You need to include some sort of grid system either fixed or fluid whatever the approach inorder to truly begin making this responsive.

I would actually again bring up the point that we need to start from scratch and construct a new theme inorder to build it into every aspet of the theme to plan it out methodically. With this I am no saying that it can not look and feel like prosilver but just be thought out better and code correctly to suit the modern device centrix world.

There are several forms of navigations and little tools scattered throughout the theme in various locations, positions and styles. This makes it damn near impossible to include all the functionality into a responsive layout. To better clarify here is a list of all the random navigation/tools throughout the theme.

Primary Nav Left (UCP, PMs, your posts)
Primary Nav Right (Members, Faq, Logout/Login)
Print & Email
View Posts Nav (View unanswered posts, View unread posts, View new posts, View active topicsMark forums read)
Mark (Mark Posts Read, Mark Forums Read)
MCP link
ACP link
Display & Sort (allows you to choose how to display posts, allows you to sort the posts)
Jump To
Mod Tools
Footer Nav Left (Bookmark, Subscribe, Bump)
Footer Nav Right (Team, Delete Cookies)
Buttons (Post, Replay ,Forward, etc...)

Each of these is a different nav all on their own. Some of these could be better organized or combined into one nav. Some of these could be better designed from a UX/I standpoint. Some could be repositioned to make them more prominent. Their is a lot of things that need to b rethought and this is a lot easier and will turn out a lot better if it is done during the initial stage of a redesign prior to coding. which translates for something like phpbb to a new coded theme to handle all of this with a redesign as well to account for all the moving, shifting and organizing.

Just because one understand HTML & CSS or heard of the concepts that exist within their world does not nessicarily mean that one understands how to use them properly

[wGEric]

You aren't going to come up with a solution that solves all of the problems. There are many devices with various resolutions on slow and fast connections. Many of these devices can switch between portrait and landscape which can change the experience. I don't think you want to give someone using a retina iPad on wifi a lite version that is optimized for a small phone on a slow connection. Responsive layout, IMO, is the best way to provide the best experience for all of the various screen sizes and gives a better experience to more people.

[hanakin]

Interesting read, covers what benchmarks should be sought for render times on Amy device. Even though this discussion seems to be geared towards mobile, according to the research done at modify the most widely used viewing device is the tablet so give this the need for a responsive theme is still extremely important. If we still wish to provide a seperate theme for mobile we can but their still needs to be some responsive ness built in to any and all themes.

O and according to this the render benchmark for the main page is 2-3 seconds before the average user gets bored or tired of waiting

[hikernick]

My phone has a screen resolution of 480 x 600. Any phpbb page has to be first loaded (completely illegible), then zoomed, then scrolled from side to side to find the navigation links, then the process repeated once a topic is selected, a post is read, etc. etc. It's usable, but only if you're really bored...

Pages take about 2-3x as long to load as they do on a PC, but as I say, are illegible in the first instance anyway.

[hanakin]

My phone has a screen resolution of 480 x 600. Any phpbb page has to be first loaded (completely illegible), then zoomed, then scrolled from side to side to find the navigation links, then the process repeated once a topic is selected, a post is read, etc. etc. It's usable, but only if you're really bored...

Pages take about 2-3x as long to load as they do on a PC, but as I say, are illegible in the first instance anyway.

We are aware of all of this that is why this this topic and the several RFCs to move towards fixing have are in the works

[AgustinL]

Responsive IS NOT mobile, discussions about if 3G/4G connections are fast enought for load a full theme like prosilver are out of place. Responsive is the replace for the old fixed-width style (like 960px). Responsive ensures that the site will adapt itself to any resolution, and that includes all PC/Laptop resolutions, tablets, and mobiles, retina displays, etc, and in my opinion (and the opinion of any developer that isn't stuck in time) a web aplicaction should be able of be usable in any device at any resolution (zoom /= usable). Internet is not more related to PCs only, tables/mobiles have a big peace of the cake (in some countrys the mobile traffic is about 30% of total, and is growing exponential), and lets no forget about the new devices that we are going to see in the next months/years (glasses, watches, etc) that will be used for internet access.

At this point, responsive is a must feature for any serious web aplication. If loading time is an issue in mobile connections, u can always do a mobile theme using things like jquery mobile o sencha touch, but that have nothing to do with responsive design.