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[Unregistered]

Wert, the reasons I said those thing was because I heard ppl gaining up on this one person, just because he gave a suggestion. heres the URL http://area51.phpbb.com/phpBB22/viewtop ... 79&e=88579
I belive that explains the some of the things I said (if not all).

When did the devs say they wanted this?

Tired of putting words in the mouths of others yet? You use an illogical form of fallacy known as a Straw Man argument Simply putting words (falsely I might add) in the mouths of the devs and then knocking down that nonsensical take on the situation isn't going to make your point.

Hmm, false? Maybe not EVERYone agrees with me here, I understand that. But as it is now, phpBB Admin CP doesn't allow me to do everyting the IPB does. Actually, out of the big three (IPB, VB, phpBB), phpBB has less features (like the subforum, you have to MOD the forum for that.). Which, like I said before (I think I said it at phpBB.com), this new version looks to have everything I will need for my future plans.

If you had done even the most preliminary sort of research, you would know this has (and is) already happening. Many of phpBB's features have been (and will likely continue to be) borrowed by Jelsoft and others.

Hmm, mostly why I said that was because from the way ppl was talking in that post I pointed out, I got the impression you don't want to compete. That you want to maintain what you guys are already good at. Well who the freack wants to do that and that alone? I would hope no company, or group, or person, would ever not want to get better. Also, I could have mis-understood what they where saying, I do that quite a lot, actually. But, my inturtation was they didn't WANT to improve. Which is quite the stupid t hing to do.

You know where to add feature requests. And if you don't, please note that judicious use of the "search" option will definitely be edifying to you in this regard. The code for phpBB is open source and you are welcome to take that code and make it whatever you want it to be.

If all you have to add is mindless bitching, then pardon me while I take your thoughts on this matter with an industrial sized grain of salt.

I think you don't know what I want. I want a forum that has the power to check my email, to be able to have a built in CMS, and million of other features that I just relized will be really hard, if not impssble, to add to a forum. Unless you where a big company, amd know how to code all that stuff, which I don't knbow how to code it. Which is why I will not ask for those features, because simply its just not resnable. And I am not mindless bichitn, like you said. I have looked around at tons of forums, and I found out there millions. Most of them suck, but phpBB is speacial. It has potenitail to be better then what it is. And from what I already see, you guys don't like criticism, or at least criticism that make phpBB looks bad (even though I AM not putting down phpBB at all, all I am doing is pointing out where you guys need to improve). And guess what, this may come hard for a simple minded person like yourself (yes, I mean that harshy), but every company can improve, somewhere. Even the mighty Sony can improve with the PS consoles, even VB can improve (and actually, I don't like VB's defult look either. subSilver is better the VB's defult look), and I would go do the same to VB and tell them where they can improve, and the same to any forum script. And maybe someday I will do that, get the script and do whatever I want to it. But actually, I am not the great of a programmer yet, and I couldn't. I also belive in phpBB, as I do with the other groups who make forum scripts, that they can be more then what they already are. Sorry if I believe differnet then you, and you belive that not everyone can improve, and that onl ythe privilage can improve. But, if you do belive that Mr.Wert, then you need to go back to the Middle-ages, because thats the time period that believes that. Thanksfully, the Renassance happened (of, I can't spel that. SHHH don't tell my teacher that..), otherwise, everyone would believe that. Thank God for the Renassance!

[Acyd Burn]

And now please go back to a civilized way of conversation.

Unregistered, i think you misunderstood something here. phpBB 2.0.x is nearly three years old, we do not add features to minor releases (say, 2.0.x has now as many features as before three years). With 2.2, we are adding features, improving everything and evolve around what we've learned. We know the pitfalls (believe me), we know our "baby".

With the sentence "Choose whichever is suitable" we do not want to imply that we are not trying to do our best. But Forum Software is driven by the community needs, an admin for a 14-year old audience forum would choose another forum software as an admin for a 30-year old IT Business audience. There are very different needs, sometimes another forum software just sits better (or is more preferred by the admin). We love to see phpBB used, of course, but we are not trying to "get" people with marketing phrases. Isn't it fair to just say: "Hey, have a look at the available forum softwares and choose for yourself, it is your choice and not ours.". And with this, aren't we demonstrating that we are believing in our product, that we believe the majority will choose phpBB?

[Roberdin]

I think you don't know what I want. I want a forum that has the power to check my email, to be able to have a built in CMS, and million of other features that I just relized will be really hard, if not impssble, to add to a forum. Unless you where a big company, amd know how to code all that stuff, which I don't knbow how to code it.

E-mail checking != Hard. Just borrow the code from Squirrel Mail (another free Open Source product) or something. As for the CMS, well just hold on for phpPP. You don't need to be a big company to know php.

[CLee]

Hmm, false?

Acutally, what Wert said was true. It was a strawman arguement. And you continued to set up more strawmen in your latest reply.

Maybe not EVERYone agrees with me here, I understand that. But as it is now, phpBB Admin CP doesn't allow me to do everyting the IPB does. Actually, out of the big three (IPB, VB, phpBB), phpBB has less features (like the subforum, you have to MOD the forum for that.).

And what does IPB or vB have to do with phpBB development? I'll tell you, nothing. phpBB's development is driven by the phpBB user base. Just because IPB or vB has incorporated a feature doesn't not mean that phpBB must follow suite.

Hmm, mostly why I said that was because from the way ppl was talking in that post I pointed out, I got the impression you don't want to compete.

Or maybe because they think they are not competing with other forum software to begin with. They clearly care about putting out what they think is a better board instead of worrying about maintaining their "market share."

That you want to maintain what you guys are already good at. Well who the freack wants to do that and that alone? I would hope no company, or group, or person, would ever not want to get better. Also, I could have mis-understood what they where saying, I do that quite a lot, actually. But, my inturtation was they didn't WANT to improve. Which is quite the stupid t hing to do.

And just where did you get that lame ass impression? Is 2.0 not an improvement over 1.x? Is the alpha version of 2.2 really no better then 2.0? It's a fallacy to think that phpBB is not improving because the developers are not including every feature that can be found in other boards.

And I am not mindless bichitn, like you said.

Not only are you mindlessly bitching, but you clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about.

[Roberdin]

I might point out that improving does NOT necessarily mean adding extra features.

[psoTFX]

Hmm, mostly why I said that was because from the way ppl was talking in that post I pointed out, I got the impression you don't want to compete.

Define "compete" We have two major "competitors", vB and IPB (yes other locally/user installed boards exist but their userbases typically do not compare favourably). However we do not "compete" in quite the same way as these pair. Both these boards are money making ventures, phpBB is not.

You will find those two boards pushing, adveritising their product anywhere and everywhere. You will find them pushing features and capabilities as if they've introduced something wonderful and unique (though like many features they have often been introduced by others already ). They want users, they need users. Thus it becomes necessary for them to pile in features left, right and centre.

Case in point, multiple users-multiple groups. That feature has existed in phpBB since early in the development of 2.0.x. Our two main competitors pooh poohed that feature; "Overly complex", "Impossible to properly utilise", blah blah ... if they haven't deleted 'em you'll find quotes like this from the developers on both boards (and their more fervent fanboys ). So why in their latest versions have they introduced this "unecessary" feature? Two reasons; some of their userbase who had converted from phpBB would've been tiring at its non-appearance, possibly even considering a move back perhaps? A second reason, some phpBB admins find this feature a "God send" and wouldn't consider moving without it. In the end these boards need more users to make more money. The same applies to threading and a certain three letter acronymn board

Our userbase drives development for us ... we aren't going to start neglecting you, dumping your requests for "corporate" money making customers, etc. So "compete" is a difficult phrase to apply to us and alternative solutions. As Acyd notes, at the end of the day our line is "Go with what works best for you". If that is IPB, use IPB, if it's vB, use vB ... if it's phpBB, great, thanks for choosing us. If that upsets people then I'm sorry I guess they prefer product which constantly pushes itself as "the" solution no matter what their requirements ... hum ho ...

[Ptirhiik_]

(../..)some phpBB admins find this feature a "God send" and wouldn't consider moving without it.(../..)

That was the main reason we have choosen phpBB for our sites, after having looked at other products, and further I developp the features that we were considering as missing, then shared them with the communauty as mods. Used to IBM AS400 family (middle to main frame) way to handled auths to libraries, I consider this way to proceed as one of the most practical on large users db. What is surprising is this way to proceed exists still the 70's on IBM plateforms, so calling it unusefull means a mis-knowledge of its existence and/or its usage.

[Unregistered]

Its clear you guys think different then me. Also, I never seen php 1 so, i wouldn't know if it is or not improveing. And the only reason I said that was because I heard ppl repling to someones request, and from what they said, it sounded like phpBB didn't to improve, in the way I see it. And is phpBB perfect? I don't think so. And the way I personally would improve is see where the competors are strong at, and improve there. Also see where they are bad at, and then make sure we are stronger there. And of course I would see where I need to improve, and fix that (first, of course).

Acutally, what Wert said was true. It was a strawman arguement. And you continued to set up more strawmen in your latest reply.

Stramen? Ok, I really have no idea what u are talking about. He he said I WAS FALSE on what I was talking about, I defended myself. But if he wasn't saying I was false, then why the heck did he say that?

Or maybe because they think they are not competing with other forum software to begin with. They clearly care about putting out what they think is a better board instead of worrying about maintaining their "market share."

And again, I do worry about "Market share", sorry if you don't, but I do. When I do something, I always have a competior, even, always. So if I do ever make a forum script, I wil ldo exactly what I said I will do, doesn't that make since? Whats wrong with me giving a suggestio. Suggestions useally mean someone suggest's something, and the person thinks about it..and either takes the suggestion, or disregards it. Sorry if you don't know that, and sorry if I am wrong. Correct me if I am.

Not only are you mindlessly bitching, but you clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Maybe I am not bichin', because I have said many times, phpBB is a good script, have I not (please, don't lie)? Also, have you ever considered maybe I just don't know what the hell you guys are talkin about? I have also said many times before that I missunderstand things, frenquently I do that. So don't always asume things, or you will be the one that doesn't know a thing, person so quick to assume things!

And guys, I will never give up argueing. I can already tell you guys don't like people giving suggestions. So I will not give you guys suggestions. Want my help? Well, I will not give it.

[psoTFX]

I think the problem here is that misunderstandings have occured and continue to propagate

We do like suggestions, hence the request tracker @ sourceforge (and the link from the index page). However we don't feel the same way as you re: competition. We're an opensource project with limited resources and time that has, IMHO (:D) managed to keep going when other projects (sometimes funded projects) have split, fallen or simply metamorphosed into something else

[Unregistered]

Haven't I said this before? Sorry, yes, I know this has happened. Ok, anyway, so you guys don't agree with my suggestion? Well what you know! Thats kool. Just stop bashin me here! Its gets annoying! Also, it really makes me think everyone here is MEAN! And I am sure (I hope, at least), thats not true.