[YES] Test environement

Want to share what MODs you've gotten to work with EM? Happy about all the time your're saving? Want to say "thanks"? Here's the place.
Forum rules
DO NOT give out any FTP passwords to anyone! There is no reason to do so! If you need help badly enough, create a temporary FTP account that is restricted to only the files that you need help with and give the information for that. Giving out FTP information can be very dangerous!
Locked
Nuttzy99
Registered User
Posts: 927
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2001 7:09 am
Contact:

Re: Test environement

Post by Nuttzy99 »

If people are downloading from phpbb.com, phpbbhacks.com, or another reputable MOD site then they can know the MODs are fairly reliable. If you download a MOD from some place else then you get what you deserve. It's like downloading a patch for Windows from some random person :roll:

-Nuttzy :cool:
SpellingCow.com - Free spell check service for your forums or any web form!
My Other Site
Ptirhiik
Registered User
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2003 12:29 pm

Re: Test environement

Post by Ptirhiik »

I was talking about functional comflict, not installation or running comflict : two mods can perfectly work with other mods, but will comflict if both installed, because they are sharing a similar functionality in a different way, and won't be compatible each other. Most of the time, this can only be tracked for a non-advance user by testing, and can issue to corrupted data in the database.
Nuttzy99
Registered User
Posts: 927
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2001 7:09 am
Contact:

Re: Test environement

Post by Nuttzy99 »

And I also see MOD authors working with each other to try to prevent this. Usually if they conflict it is going to be a on a FIND anyway so the 2nd MOD won't even install, therefore not causing any downtime on your board.

-Nuttzy :cool:
SpellingCow.com - Free spell check service for your forums or any web form!
My Other Site
User avatar
-=ET=-
Registered User
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon May 26, 2003 1:35 pm
Location: France

Re: Test environement

Post by -=ET=- »

We've talked about this potential issue many times on phpBB-fr.com with Ptirhiik and I fundamentally agree with him to say that a MOD should NOT be installed on a live forum and should be tested after its installation, but I totally disagree with him on it's often pessimistic point of view about EM.

I think yes, EM should automatically lock any access to the forum and its database BEFORE any installation of a MOD (by the "Disable board" phpBB functionality), and should STRONGLY ask the admin after the installation to carefully test its forum BEFORE going to unlock it manually, OR restore the backup files and unlock it!
But, that's the good and sufficient way of doing for me.

The fact is that I understand Ptirhiik's point of view but I think it's an excessive one for phpBB. I know what he means because it's the way things should be done for critical systems such as ERP/CRM softwares is big companies for example.
But I think too that phpBB is not SAP R/3 or Oracle eBusiness suite 11i for General motors, and you can not complexify EM too much, virtually or voluntarily limit it's target of users, just for VERY VERY few & rare POTENTIAL issues (taking into account the forum lock precaution of course).
I think that there are perhaps less than 2% of all phpBB boards in use all around the world that may be judged as critical and their admins (not the others) should be sufficiently careful to use some more precautions when they want to install a MOD.

Just my opinion :roll:
Eternal newbie
User avatar
GPHemsley
Registered User
Posts: 1617
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 4:01 am
Location: Long Beach, NY
Contact:

Re: Test environement

Post by GPHemsley »

Basing off of that locking-the-forum idea, you can have EasyMOD record which userid has entered the EM password to install a MOD and then lock the forum as soon as installation begins. Then have the forum locked to everyone BUT that userid, so that they can check for errors and such. Once that userid has checked for errors, they then enter a different window (possibly settings?) and uncheck the "forums locked for testing?" switch, which is only visible to that particular userid? Just an idea. :lol:
senghong79
Registered User
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:03 pm

Re: Test environement

Post by senghong79 »

[quote=\"-=ET=-\"]
I think yes, EM should automatically lock any access to the forum and its database BEFORE any installation of a MOD (by the \"Disable board\" phpBB functionality), and should STRONGLY ask the admin after the installation to carefully test its forum BEFORE going to unlock it manually, OR restore the backup files and unlock it!
But, that's the good and sufficient way of doing for me.
[/quote]

I agree with this. You'll lose maybe 10 minutes of board activity for each MOD for some extra safety. Furthermore, it can happen that and an admin misunderstood what a MOD does and changed his mind after seeing how the MOD actually works. Perhaps it can be a default option rather than automatically though, just to satisfy a broader group of users.

Someone who wants to go MOD crazy would probably know it himself to have a test environment going on. Perhaps phpbb.com can have copy of phpbb installed with EVERY EMC approved MOD from the MOD database to check for functionality conflicts, or maybe a checklist of those that will conflict (or even duplicate of functions). Therefore, the team can assure users that any MOD from the database will not have any problems, while more adventorous users can venture outside, but won't have support for third party MODs outside the database at phpbb.com.
User avatar
-=ET=-
Registered User
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon May 26, 2003 1:35 pm
Location: France

Re: Test environement

Post by -=ET=- »

[quote=\"senghong79\"]Therefore, the team can assure users that any MOD from the database will not have any problems, while more adventorous users can venture outside[/quote]
That's impossible.
As Ptirhiik as said and he's perfectly right, 2 MODs may not cause troubles if installed separately but be incompatible together, and no one can test each combination of MODs (as for 100 MODs there is more than 5000 combinations of 2 MODs - and even more if there is 3 or more MODs together), so we need to be careful even with MODs of the phpBB database :wink:
Eternal newbie
User avatar
GPHemsley
Registered User
Posts: 1617
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2003 4:01 am
Location: Long Beach, NY
Contact:

Re: Test environement

Post by GPHemsley »

[quote=\"-=ET=-\"][quote=\\"senghong79\\"]Therefore, the team can assure users that any MOD from the database will not have any problems, while more adventorous users can venture outside[/quote]
That's impossible.
As Ptirhiik as said and he's perfectly right, 2 MODs may not cause troubles if installed separately but be incompatible together, and no one can test each combination of MODs (as for 100 MODs there is more than 5000 combinations of 2 MODs - and even more if there is 3 or more MODs together), so we need to be careful even with MODs of the phpBB database wink[/quote]
Well, not really.... If you install all of the MODs together once, then you'd know if they were compatible with each other. ;)
Ptirhiik
Registered User
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2003 12:29 pm

Re: Test environement

Post by Ptirhiik »

It is not so simple imagine two mods installed, comflicting, and a third that handles the functions comflicting that were present in the two precedent. You won't see so the issues, as the third will be the main processor.
User avatar
-=ET=-
Registered User
Posts: 214
Joined: Mon May 26, 2003 1:35 pm
Location: France

Re: Test environement

Post by -=ET=- »

Exactly!

I fully agree and that's exactly the kind of case I've find rewriting 30% of Niels's MODs.
Sometimes MODs may conflict with another one, but if you install another precise one the issue can be solved by its specific code.

Therefore, I really think that we NEED in ANY CASE to be very careful when we install a MOD, and need test the MOD and the boad after the installation, before unlocking the forum access.

This is very important.
Eternal newbie
Locked