Prosilver redesign

[Master_Cylinder]

When it comes to web design, the last web pages that I built by hand were in pre/early-flash days so I *am* inexperienced but STYLES are about looks and the way they act and when talking about a new style, looks are everything as far as I'm concerned. I don't care if it uses bootstrap (or any other framework) or not if it's ugly. Mobile first is NOT my primary concern when choosing styles, the way they look and feel are. Mobile-first, for example, isn't going to make me like an ugly style more just because it's mobile-first. I'd take 3.1 prosilver (with a few tweaks) over an uglier style with fancy new frameworks any day.

Great, and when your style has the look and feel of prosilver (or at least different that what it is now) then I'll re-evaluate how I feel about it. Please don't take my subjective criticism personally.

I didn't say I "LOVE" prosilver, I said I've come to like it and that its not ugly at all. My background is 20+ years of professional IT experience as a server/network admin/engineer and IT Manager for several corporations, some small, some large and many in between. My first computer was a Timex Sinclair in 1982 and after spending two weeks programming hangman in BASIC that was the virtual end of my programming days. I have however, managed programmers, web designers/webmasters, DBAs and graphic artists. I chose not to go into details about what I liked and didn't like about it because I didn't think this was the right topic for that since *this* one is about a "prosilver redesign" rather than a new style but if you *really* want to know I certainly could. If you plan on making it look more like prosilver, it might be better to wait until then since, as I've mentioned, styles are subjective.

If we're going to talk about redesigning prosilver (the actual subject of *this* topic) then we have to know what that will look like on the outside not just what's on the inside. There's no need to talk about redesigning it if it's not going to replace it. If you want to make a "new style," for download, that's not intended to replace prosilver and be shipped with phpBB, like prosilver, then maybe this isn't the right topic for that conversation.

[Mess]

I remember you starting the project last summer hanakin. Great to see you doing progress. I agree you should focus on making the best possible base, the actual design can come later.

Keep up the good work.

[Pony99CA]

[....]STYLES are about looks and the way they act[....]

And what do you think makes a style "act" a certain way? The code, of course.

ProSilver looks ugly on a phone. Responsive design (a design technique) can make it look and act better, so the code certainly does matter. View the design as an architecture in progress, not a finished product. We already get that you want any new style to look like ProSilver (which I'm generally in favor of, too), so there's really no need to complain any further about a proof-of-concept because it doesn't look like ProSilver, especially in a "ProSilver redesign" topic where the presumption is that the finished product will look similar to ProSilver.

Steve

[Master_Cylinder]

Yes of course but there are a 100 ways to skin a cat...and I don't care so much how it's done as long as the end result is acceptable.

3.1 prosilver is already responsive and *I* don't care if we get a "new style" or not but if we *do* get a new one then it's a matter of whether it's supposed to replace prosilver or compete with it. I have every right to criticize a proof of concept in a prosilver redesign topic, *you* can assume what it'll look like later, I don't have to. I can go by what it looks like now. If the design changes so can my evaluation.

[Pony99CA]

Nobody is questioning your "right" to express an opinion, but I think there are two points to take into consideration.

1. This board is meant as a technical board. You've stated in this topic that you have essentially no programming skills and few Web developement skills. So unless you have some usability design or testing experience that you didn't mention, your opinions are basically lay opinions. In other words, your opinions are solely based on looks, not architecture (which is OK, but not when trying to discuss a technical point). Yes, normal users won't care, but this board isn't really for normal users.

People here are trying to get the necessary function down first, not the the look, so maybe not jumping in until you understand things a bit more would be prudent. Or, instead of saying "I don't like that look", how about saying "How easily can you make it look more like ProSilver?"

2. You express the same opinion over and over well after we've understood it. It seems like you're trying to get the last word in more than advance any discussion. As I like to say, just because you have a right to do something doesn't mean that you have to (or should) do it. I may have the right to flash stacks of hundred dollar bills in the ghetto, but I probably shouldn't.

Anyway, I think that's what some of the people in this topic are trying to get across.

Steve

P.S. It also doesn't help when you won't address somebody by their preferred name, even when asked to. If you mispronounce somebody's name in the real world, and they corrected you, would you keep mispronouncing it intentionally just because you have that "right"? Imagine how you'd react to somebody that did that to you.

[Master_Cylinder]

1) You're wrong, *all* opinions are welcome here not just yours, those that agree with you, programmers and/or web designers. Try again...

2) So do you. What *you* think I should do or not doesn't mean what you wish it meant. Try again.

P.S. I've been told by staff that abbreviating usernames is OK here, 99, so I will.

[BioLogIn]

Pony99CA
Just add him to ignore list, really. Even if 1% of his posts might be useful by accident, it is not worth your time reading and replying to other 99% when he totally ignores the point...

[Master_Cylinder]

Pony99CA
Just add him to ignore list, really. Even if 1% of his posts might be useful by accident, it is not worth your time reading and replying to other 99%...

Please do...because I *will* continue to post my opinions and I shouldn't be constantly attacked by those that disagree.

I give *my* opinions about the subjects and SOME only give their opinions about me.

[MattF]

A more productive discussion on a "Prosilver redesign" should actually focus on Prosilver's architecture, not its look (or especially simple tweaks that anybody can make to their own personal forum).

For example, it would be really smart for Prosilver to use LESS or SASS in some form. Nothing has to change about how Prosilver looks, but things need to change that will make it easier for more Style Developers to build better styles. One of the great hurdles in making Prosilver-based styles is its sprawling and disconnected CSS (probably also one of the reasons a lot of style devs use subsilver2 as a base instead, unfortunately). If a master LESS or SASS file were shipped with Prosilver, that style authors could use to much more simply implement style changes through, we'd see a lot more variety in styles, and then nobody would care so much about what Prosilver looks like, because there'd be this richer pool of other styles to choose from to make your forum stand out and not look like a generic phpBB forum.

Currently there are only a few really great looking 3rd party styles, and that's because only a couple people have been able to put in the effort needed to really go for it. Prosilver really can be dramatically redesigned through CSS changes alone (just look at subsilver3) and if something like a LESS/SASS file could simplify that, think of how that could really spawn a new generation of style development for phpBB3.

[Master_Cylinder]

A more productive discussion on a "Prosilver redesign" should actually focus on Prosilver's architecture, not its look (or especially simple tweaks that anybody can make to their own personal forum).

Why is tweaking prosilver less valid for a redesign topic than a complete overhaul? Because that's what you want? What about what others want? Do you not at least see a potential problem with replacing it with something completely new? I can understand why you said that you were against something new being a secondary style but but there is also valid reasons to be against replacing prosilver with something unknown. Isn't debating those choices "productive?"