Thanks System

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Martian
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Re: Thanks System

Post by Martian »

Pony99CA wrote:While I don't have a problem with something like this in the core code, the previous two posts illustrate one of the problems -- how many different ways of doing this there are. You can do Thanks/Like/+1, Ranking (0-5/10), Thumbs Up/Down, etc. You can do that for posts and/or topics, too.
These different ways are basically the same thing: giving a positive (Thanks/Like/+1/Thumbs Up) rating or a negative (Dislike/-1/Thumbs Down) rating, while ratings extending from 0-5 or even 0-10 is probably not useful for most forums.

I would like to use a big player like YouTube as an example. They used to have a 5 star rating system, but they found out that the 5-star rating was used by far the most. The 1-star rating was also used somewhat, but there was only a very small percentage of 2, 3 and 4-star ratings. So they decided to go for a simpler thumbs up/thumbs down system.

Informative YouTube blog post about this: http://youtube-global.blogspot.nl/2009/ ... tings.html

Quote from the YouTube blog post:
Seems like when it comes to ratings it's pretty much all or nothing. Great videos prompt action; anything less prompts indifference. Thus, the ratings system is primarily being used as a seal of approval, not as an editorial indicator of what the community thinks about a video.
I think for forums in general it will be the same as with the YouTube videos, you only need a simple approval/disapproval rating system.

Pony99CA wrote:Maybe phpBB could implement a very simple system (simpler than VSE's suggestion) that other extensions could override. For example, I would not display a list of people who thanked anybody in the post, just the total count of thanks
+1 (or thumbs up...) ;)

Agreed, keep it simple. For example like YouTube only displaying total likes and dislikes, or the sum of them.
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Pony99CA
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Re: Thanks System

Post by Pony99CA »

Martian wrote:
Pony99CA wrote:While I don't have a problem with something like this in the core code, the previous two posts illustrate one of the problems -- how many different ways of doing this there are. You can do Thanks/Like/+1, Ranking (0-5/10), Thumbs Up/Down, etc. You can do that for posts and/or topics, too.
These different ways are basically the same thing: giving a positive (Thanks/Like/+1/Thumbs Up) rating or a negative (Dislike/-1/Thumbs Down) rating, while ratings extending from 0-5 or even 0-10 is probably not useful for most forums.
My post already broke them down by similarities. Thanks/Like/+1 is different than Thumbs Up/Down because the latter allows a negative rating while the former takes the "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything" approach. While adding a "Dislike" or "-1" makes it like Thumbs Up/Down, does Facebook have a Dislike button or does Google+ have a "-1" button? (Even if you allowed them, that still leaves Thanks as a separate item, unless you're advocating a Thanks For Nothing button, too. :lol:)

As for ratings, I recall that vBulletin had them, although that might have been a MOD. See below, too.

As long as you only track two numbers -- a total score and how many people rated the item -- all of them can be represented in the database identically; only the code tracking the statistics would change. If you track separate ratings (how mnay Thumbs Up or Down an item got or how many people gave each rating), then things start to diverge more.
Martian wrote:I would like to use a big player like YouTube as an example. They used to have a 5 star rating system, but they found out that the 5-star rating was used by far the most. The 1-star rating was also used somewhat, but there was only a very small percentage of 2, 3 and 4-star ratings. So they decided to go for a simpler thumbs up/thumbs down system.
That may be the audience -- slackers who spend hours of time watching cat videos. :D They may not be seriously critiquing the videos at all.

I'll counter your example, with Amazon, Google Play and Yelp, all of which have five-star ratings -- and people do use all levels.

So for an "entertainment" board (discussing celebrities, for example), a Thumbs Up/Down system may work well, but for a serious forum (like this one for rating RFCs), a multi-point scale may be more appropriate (0 -- I hate the idea, 5 -- I don't care either way, 10 -- I must have this).
Martian wrote:
Pony99CA wrote:Maybe phpBB could implement a very simple system (simpler than VSE's suggestion) that other extensions could override. For example, I would not display a list of people who thanked anybody in the post, just the total count of thanks
+1 (or thumbs up...) ;)

Agreed, keep it simple. For example like YouTube only displaying total likes and dislikes, or the sum of them.
My super simple system would only allow Thanks/Like/+1; there wouldn't be a way to dislike something. That would be an override.

It would also only apply to posts, not topics. Rating topics is similar to rating Amazon products, while rating posts is similar to rating user reviews. A topic rating could be done separately, of coruse, or it could be derived from the individual posts' ratings, but that would be another override.

Oh, and as long as I'm at it, I would also change the Ranks system to allow the user's rank to be based on Thanks given (what I call "Ranks for Thanks") instead of post count (the admin could choose one of them). The Member List would show both Post Count and Thanks (sortable, of course).

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Martian
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Re: Thanks System

Post by Martian »

Pony99CA wrote:I'll counter your example, with Amazon, Google Play and Yelp, all of which have five-star ratings -- and people do use all levels.
Yes, and another example is imdb.com. But these sites are different, they are sites where the review and ratings play a major role, so a more refined rating system like 5-stars is more appropriate there. For forum posts in general a simple like/dislike will be more appropriate IMHO. For rating RFCs a multi-point scale indeed may be more appropriate, but I don't think individual posts need that, not even on a serious forum. Actually, I would only find it more of a hassle if had to consider not only if I liked a post, but also just how much. :?

Pony99CA wrote:My super simple system would only allow Thanks/Like/+1; there wouldn't be a way to dislike something.
That's also a reasonable option. It could be made an option in the ACP to use only "Like" or both "Like" and "Dislike".


BTW: I noticed last night that a similar discusiion has been going on in: [3.x] Discussion: Thanks for post.
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Re: Thanks System

Post by imkingdavid »

I wouldn't be against something like this being implemented, though I do feel it might be better as an extension.

There are a number of different options we could consider, but I think the two I would be most happy with would be either the YouTube approach or the StackOverflow approach. A 5-star scale is harder to implement and I doubt it would be used properly.

In any case, the reason this would be better as an extension is because there are so many different ways to do it; if we do it one way and someone else wants it another way, IMO it would be more difficult to override the native method with a new method than to simply add a new method.
  • YouTube method - Simple Thumbs Up/Down or Like/Dislike system. The number of ups and downs are displayed separately from one another and do not interact (i.e. a down does not subtract an up and vice versa).
  • StackOverflow method - 0-centered rating system. If one user votes up a topic and another votes it down, the total rating displayed is 0. This can go into the negatives.
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Dragosvr92
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Re: Thanks System

Post by Dragosvr92 »

Meis2M wrote:-2
You once agreed with this idea, what made you change your mind?
viewtopic.php?f=81&t=43049#p240805
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MichaelC
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Re: Thanks System

Post by MichaelC »

imkingdavid wrote:I wouldn't be against something like this being implemented, though I do feel it might be better as an extension.

There are a number of different options we could consider, but I think the two I would be most happy with would be either the YouTube approach or the StackOverflow approach. A 5-star scale is harder to implement and I doubt it would be used properly.

In any case, the reason this would be better as an extension is because there are so many different ways to do it; if we do it one way and someone else wants it another way, IMO it would be more difficult to override the native method with a new method than to simply add a new method.
  • YouTube method - Simple Thumbs Up/Down or Like/Dislike system. The number of ups and downs are displayed separately from one another and do not interact (i.e. a down does not subtract an up and vice versa).
  • StackOverflow method - 0-centered rating system. If one user votes up a topic and another votes it down, the total rating displayed is 0. This can go into the negatives.
Or the facebook & XF method of just +1/liking. -1 or disliking can cause un-nessasary friction.

Voting either way can be left to polls?
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Re: Thanks System

Post by Lucas Malor »

+1 to "thanks" only to posts.
theallzaz
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Re: Thanks System

Post by theallzaz »

DavidIQ wrote:I think that by the time we're ready to go with 4.0 this would have garnered enough support to convince the developers to do something about it. There was already a proposal for 3.1 for it (rejected I think) and the 3.0 MOD is the third most downloaded MOD right now on phpBB.com so I think we will eventually have something like this in the core and I would dare to say most definitely for 4.0.
4.0? But when this will happen, i think 2015/2016? what a pity

I don't understand why they rejected it. All forums that have the "thanks system" are widely used by the users.

Not to mention that this is a good way to avoid useless posts, because users do not need to create a new post just to thank or comment on something related.

Moreover, when an administrator needs to promote moderation for moderator, he can see if the user was thanked several times, as this is an indication that the user helps others.

Just a thank you system that shows who thanked below the post and the total in the profile is enough.

And sorry my english translator.
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DavidIQ
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Re: Thanks System

Post by DavidIQ »

What's wrong with it being an extension? I don't see why this being an extension, even in 3.1, would be a big problem for anyone. I also don't see where "other forums" have this as a standard feature. vBulletin seems to have it available as a "hack"...
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theallzaz
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Re: Thanks System

Post by theallzaz »

DavidIQ wrote:What's wrong with it being an extension? I don't see why this being an extension, even in 3.1, would be a big problem for anyone. I also don't see where "other forums" have this as a standard feature. vBulletin seems to have it available as a "hack"...
My question is: what's wrong with it being inside the core? If you, as admin dont want this feature, just switch off in acp.

And I was saying about the forums that i participate. Not just me but I notice that several users who participate in these forums use the thanks system.

What i don't understand is why things like birthday-feature is inside the core, while thanks-features that are widely used (as you said earlier is the third most downloaded plugin), is not.
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