New Karma System (Theory)

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dhn
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Re: New Karma System (Theory)

Post by dhn »

the_dan wrote: So apply individually to do it? I don't think I would be able to do the required ammount of work alone in the potential timespan required (for Karma, at least), adn as such, I guess it would need to be team based? Should teams be applying together?
Feel free to apply as a team if you find people to work with. But if not, there might be other's interested in the project that did not read this topic, so I suggest to apply anyway.
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the_dan
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Re: New Karma System (Theory)

Post by the_dan »

dhn wrote:
the_dan wrote: So apply individually to do it? I don't think I would be able to do the required ammount of work alone in the potential timespan required (for Karma, at least), adn as such, I guess it would need to be team based? Should teams be applying together?
Feel free to apply as a team if you find people to work with. But if not, there might be other's interested in the project that did not read this topic, so I suggest to apply anyway.
Okay, I PM'd Paul with an individual application (although stating that I would enjoy, and want to work in a team).
Thanks for the guidance :)
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Re: New Karma System (Theory)

Post by Daichi »

No one can seem to agree on how this should be done. I think this is simply due to the fact that there is no "one size fits all" solution.

I'm thinking it might be more important to worry about how karma works and coexists with the forum rather then how the karma numbers change.

(So here is my very non mathematical post :!:)

Let's worry about the underlying Karma system, something like a type of API.

We worry about things such as where is Karma displayed and what does the end user see? (Perhaps the user sees a word system, "High Karma", "Normal Karma", "Low Karma", Would about a Karma top list maybe?) Then we worry about how would low karma effects a user and what possible privileges could a user gain from having high karma.

Then we could have different Karma "scripts" which an admin could install or to modify as it suits his needs. These scripts would have all the math needed to effect someone's karma. And includes other things such as the type of rating system (two point rating: thumbs up/thumbs down, 10 point system, no end user rating system/admin only rating ect...).

Some admin's might only need/want a simple system where karma only grows normally and only lowers due to a moderator punishment. Or maybe karma grows in relation to a users post count (maybe karma could only change for topic starting, replies, maybe only on certain forums). Maybe users could "spend" karma like a type of currency to gain certain privileges. Maybe karma could reset for everyone on new years day, I dunno but it should be an extensible system.

Other admin's might want something more complex, maybe set a max limit to karma or set users with very low karma to periodically raise to a certain point given time.

What about a multi-value karma system one for "Good Karma" and the other for "Bad Karma", Maybe the "Bad Karma" could be hidden from the end user and only allow mods to see this. (This could be an easy way to store other hidden user variables, like Weight for use in equations.)

Now of course this leaves it very open to "abuse" but at least it's then the admin's choice of what kind of system he wants and what best suits his needs. The least we could do, is by default we could at least include a very reasonable system.

If we get this much then we could have "Karma System Mods" we could work with. Getting this far would at least allow us to see something in action and not in theory and then we could compare these different ideas against each other with ease.

Given this, there are still things that need to be agreed on, like what variables are needed (like maybe karma weight) will be used, or allow the system to be flexible enough to add variables to the equations as needed.

There should also be variables at different levels, like forum related karma variables, for instance I was thinking of forum weight, maybe an admin doesn't want off topic boards worth as much as others.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. :D

-Dachi 8)

(If you read this far thanks for your time, It took me much time to write.)
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DavidMJ
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Re: New Karma System (Theory)

Post by DavidMJ »

If you wish to assemble a team to make this Karma system, assemble first. Then, submit your proposal by the team leader.
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Re: New Karma System (Theory)

Post by DeadEye686 »

DavidMJ wrote: If you wish to assemble a team to make this Karma system, assemble first. Then, submit your proposal by the team leader.
This is a thread discussing potential theories for developing an effective Karma system... he wasn't applying to write it. Please don't try to stifle the as-of-yet very intelligent discourse for whatever reason you are.


For the record, I like that idea - one of the major problems with karma as others have implemented it is how rigid and inflexible it is; each forum is different, and karma should reflect this as well. I was planning on writing my own karma system for my site with this sort of idea.
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Re: New Karma System (Theory)

Post by wGEric »

DeadEye686 wrote: This is a thread discussing potential theories for developing an effective Karma system... he wasn't applying to write it. Please don't try to stifle the as-of-yet very intelligent discourse for whatever reason you are.
His reply was meant for the_dan.
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Re: New Karma System (Theory)

Post by DeadEye686 »

wGEric wrote:
DeadEye686 wrote: This is a thread discussing potential theories for developing an effective Karma system... he wasn't applying to write it. Please don't try to stifle the as-of-yet very intelligent discourse for whatever reason you are.
His reply was meant for the_dan.
:oops:

My apologies - I didn't even consider that.
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dhn
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Re: New Karma System (Theory)

Post by dhn »

Mike Davidson has a nice example on his blog of how AJAX will benefit polling / rating interfaces. Instead of having to wait for a reload of the whole page, ratings for a post are registered immediately. This will resolve a major hurdle that karma and rating systems on forums had so far, people didn't vote because it took too long.
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Re: New Karma System (Theory)

Post by cyberCrank »

** tis clean and simple, and note which new feature got the most votes :) **
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Re: New Karma System (Theory)

Post by arod-1 »

the more i think about karma system(s), the more i am convinced that such system should not be made a part of the core product, because it is
a) complex
b) susceptible to "engineering".

otoh, i thought of a very simple, and, imo, effective substitute:
once a system has a friend/foe feature, a simple substitute for a karma system would be exposing the F/F rating of a user.
what it means is this: the users will be able to see 4 numbers: how many people marked X as a foe (i.e., chose to ignore his/her posts), how many people does X has marked as foes (if someone chose to ignore 50% of users, i know this person is not a "good listener") and maybe expose the same stats for friends.
much simpler, does not require any additional action from the users for rating people/posts, and much less susceptible to engineering: i can only "punish" another user once, and i "pay" some price for it by extending my own foe list.
the friends stats, i think, are less meaningful, because someone having lots of friends does not necessarilly imply that i want to read their posts...

as a side, and regardless of karma: i think it is fair to tell a user, (in the UCP), how many people marked him/her as a foe. if there are a lot of people on a forum who choose to ignore my posts, i might choose to change my style, or retire from the specific board...
i didnt see those stats available in the ucp here, but then again, i might have just missed it...
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