Can i convert

Discussion of general topics related to the new version and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
elyograg
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Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:10 am

Re: Can i convert

Post by elyograg »

code reader wrote: personally, i think it will not be the best thing to do to wait until the rc for the release of the converter.

iiuc, the rationale for this is to discourage people from using the beta version for a live system. otoh, this causes difficulties for people who wish to test with large ammounts of data, as they need to generate this data (users and posts) artifically, instead of using readily existing real data.

My personal plans with regard to this are to make a copy of my database and upgrade it to Olympus on a test forum on a separate server. I have a test forum already that only my fellow admins know about. Once the release candidate comes out, I will set up the separate server and allow the users in the inner sanctum to pound on it. Except for the separate server part (I do my own hosting and I'm in the middle of a hardware replacement), I expect that will be the route many admins choose.

To the dev team - add my voice to those that have said they want a supported way to NOT import permissions from the old board. There are so many improvements in the default permission set that I do not want to miss out on them by having my v2 permissions overwrite them.
code reader wrote: i also think that providing an upgrade script from beta-2 to beta-3 will help the beta process. many good testers remained for too long with beta-1 after beta-2 was released because such a script from 1 to 2 was not available, and were lost to the project as testers.

I'm content with the dev team plans in this regard, and with the idea that the converter will not be available until rc1. From all evidence I've seen on area51, the beta2 release has resulted in tons of bugfixes and changes. The extent of these changes will require a new beta release. If beta3 results in extensive changes, it means there will be a beta4. You can't call it a release candidate until you have major confidence that your API and database schema do not need further tweaking. If we want a bug-free upgrade script, the dev team must minimize the number of scenarios it has to correctly recognize and handle.

If there are no database or API changes required when the last beta version transitions to rc1, the dev team just might allow upgrades from the last beta as well. I wlll not count on that happening, so I will not attempt to use any beta release as my live forum. Even though I will probably allow my users to actively use a converted copy when rc1 comes out, that will not be my live forum either. I do not expect to be using Olympus live until at least one or two releases after gold.

-grag

p.s. - About the term "gold" in software releases. I haven't seen anyone else mention this, so I thought I would. In the early days of CD burning, you couldn't get blanks in any color other than gold. When your product was ready to be mass-produced, you would burn a final version of the install CD called the Gold Master because of the color of the disc. That is what the manufacturing plant uses to make the plate that stamps out mass-produced discs, which at the time were always silver.
KFCSpike
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Re: Can i convert

Post by KFCSpike »

code reader wrote: i also think that providing an upgrade script from beta-2 to beta-3 will help the beta process. many good testers remained for too long with beta-1 after beta-2 was released because such a script from 1 to 2 was not available, and were lost to the project as testers. going from 2 to 3 without upgrade path will likely have similar effect. the testers are investing time and effort shaping their test boards this way and that, adding custom profile fields, custom bbcode, creating all kinds of users, forums, posts, permissions etc., having to start from scratch with every beta release is a set-back, and many good testers are very hesitant to move to the next level. it also means beginning with a miniscule data set every time.


I have to agree with this. I have set up a test board using B2 to help me get to grips with the new permissions and options.
It is not a 'live' board but a few selected users have been invited to use it so I can judge their reactions to the new layout etc and also to report any errors. (They all love it btw!)
I have spent a lot of time on this knowing I will have to start from scratch again.

We have been well warned that there will be no upgrades from betas though, so no real complaint if upgrade script from B2 to 'next version' doesn't happen, but if a B3 arrived I wouldn't try it unless it was upgradeable.

I think an upgrade path from future Betas is far more important than an upgrade from v2 (only my opinion ;) )
Of course, if next release is RC1 then this opinion can be ignored :)

IMO, the changes from v2 to Olympus are so great that I do not want to convert my old v2 board to Olympus.
Many will disagree and want the upgrade from v2. Personally, I plan to keep my old v2 board running in parallel (probably read only) for a while but make a fresh start with Olympus.
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Eelke
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Re: Can i convert

Post by Eelke »

As far as settings, I agree that there is too much change from 2.0 that I don't want to "just" upgrade my 2.0 board, but as far as content, no way (which is why I suggested a while ago that the official conversion process should offer a way to migrate only content into a pre-configured 3.0 board). I have a 2.0 board with almost 130,000 posts, a large number of which contain invaluable technical information from the community. There's no way I will give that up (I'd rather not convert - but I won't have to make that choice, because there will be a converter at some point in time - or live with having to tweak the result of a straight conversion from my 2.0 board into using all the wonderful 3.0 features - which is a more likely scenario).

Although I agree with most points code reader is bringing up, I do think we shouldn't forget that if the team were to provide an upgrade path from beta to beta, that would be pure overhead, so I think that should be a careful consideration.

The other point, releasing the 2.0.x to 3.0 converter I think would be a somewhat different matter. I would expect (and think recall it has been said) there is already code for that, and it will have to be released at some point, and it will also need to be tested. So, releasing that converter now isn't overhead, at least nowhere near 100%. I think that releasing the converter by making it accessible through CVS is a good idea. People clever enough to figure out how to get it will mostly understand they shouldn't be using it to go live with a converted board. Of course there will still be people who download it, remove all the warning die()s you put in it and still give it to idiots who don't know what they're doing, but should we really be worrying about them? How much of a support overhead would that kind of morron (pardon the french) generate?

Of course, as has already been pointed out, for each type of conversion that would be offered, that would introduce an extra scenario to take into account when dealing with bug reports; was a problem caused by a bug in the core code, or by an error in the conversion process?
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