Olympus vs. the rest

Discussion of general topics related to the new version and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Alenônimo
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Re: Olympus vs. the rest

Post by Alenônimo »

spambot wrote: I was just pointing you toward some topics that will answer your question, and a couple mods in the making. You may also find this has been discussed many times. It's not about what you or your users want, you're not in the position to demand.

You're sticking to SMF anyway, so what's the big deal..?


We're not comparing the BB systems? I just said that we'll be using SMF just because of this feature, as the others features are very similar or don't make much difference for our members.
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ElbertF
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Re: Olympus vs. the rest

Post by ElbertF »

spambot wrote: so what's the big deal..?
TwistedWeather
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Re: Olympus vs. the rest

Post by TwistedWeather »

SHS` wrote: There are a gross number of things that you still don't seem to "get", so I'll entrtain myself in replying here too...
TwistedWeather wrote: I believe a few here on the development team etc could take a few lesson's in patience and friendliness from the guy's over at SMF.


May I remind you that SMF is a commercial outfit and by definition will have an interest in making money some way or another. The software may be "free", though it is certainly not "libre" as per in the OSS definition.
The point is LIKE HERE they are FREE. You have the OPTION of paying for better support ( Even without paying the support is good )and as well for paying you get first crack at new releases. They have solid reasoning as to why they went the route they did for thier license. In short the same happend to them as you all back when phpbb2 was released.
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You are also mistaking "handling-wth-kid-gloves" as being friendliness. Also, you are mistaking "short-and-direct" (read terse) as being rudeness. OSS people generally of a technical background and if there is anything in common with them is the fact of the general distain for "time wasters". Furthemore, support in OSS (excluding paid distro support) is also very different to commrcial software... and generally of the ilk "help you help yourself". If that rubs you up the wrong way... use something else. Thanks for this tip. But still it isnt a good excuse because MOST people are NOT aware of how thing's work behind the scenes.
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TwistedWeather wrote: Yeah i know that seing people ask this or that be it about release dates, adding features, etc may get old to you all but i know for a fact from being at their site almost as much as here that they get asked the same things day in and day out just like here BUT rarely IF ever get irate with people when stuff like that is asked and or discussed this especially applies to feature request.


Spelling, punctuation, grammar goes a long way. Online, you are what you write and anything which wastes time in people reading what you have to say is likely to reflect badly upon yourself. Writing in a clear, lucid, structured manner is more likely to get your point across... even if the point may be of ideologcally opposing views to the reader.
Nice way to shy away from my comment that i am VERY SURE YOU and everyone else understood. Doesnt say much about oneself when they have to go the route you did to avoid that comment of mine. Dont let my poorly written comment fool you either.
I never have and never will care what people who i will never meet NOR do business with think about my grammer on a BB. I have found that most people who take issue with such thing's usually do it to avoid the subject at hand. Nice way to TRY and win a argument/discussion by TRYING to discredit someone over thier grammer. Your certainly not the best of debaters i can see. Again i say you can take lesson's from SMF when dealing with the public.

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TwistedWeather wrote: Plus it may help if you all had a forum just for the purpose of feedback/feature request.


There is a forum for feedback of implimented features. It's also been stated very clearly that there are to be no feature requests whatsoever. The original plan for "phpBB2.2" got broader in scope as it was being developed, and thus aside from being renamed (as per Linux kernel tradition of changed API) to "phpBB3.0" and moving some features that can't be implimented between than and "Gold", to "phpBB3.2".

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that by definition then, all features at least up to "phpBB3.2" are frozen, aside from fixing whatever bugs in the current implimentation there may be. By extension... this means requests for new features also wouldn't ahppen till whenver "phpBB3.4" gets started.

Firstly i understand what that forum states. No need for the side comment's. I already stated my opinion on this which again you side stepped. I know features cannot be added till atleast 3.2

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TwistedWeather wrote: Doesnt mean every feature has to be added either. However it does show that you all here at phpbb care about the USERS of your software and what they think.


Aside from the above, phpBB first and foremost cares about the software it produces. It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference if it's one user (ourselves), 100 users or 10 million users.

phpBB has it's own vision for the software and if a users likes it, great. If they don't, then they are free to use something else. If they don't like how some things are implimented, then by the nature of it's opensourceness, are free to fork it (assuming they abide by the requirements of the license).
Very good points here. Believe me i know you all care about your software. That is great and how it should be. However i dont believe it to be a wise decision NOT to care about those who use it.Doesnt add much to the creditbility factor either.JMHO
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TwistedWeather wrote: Every software site (BOTH FREE and Paid for) i have ever been to has this except here.


Hyperbole and logical fallicy of appeal to authority. I suggest you read the really rather good "Producing Opensource", penned by the author of Subversion, on why OSS projects are the way they are. ;) http://www.producingoss.com/" target="_blank

Again you avoid the issue at hand and are trying to take the easy route out. And again i say ANY software site i have been to BOTH FREE ( And yes opensource ) and paid has a feedback/feature request forum. Your using that link as a excuse to avoid the question/comment at hand. Anyway's it was a suggestion i had. Evidently you are NOT for it.


Believe me i appreciate what all of you all do here. My comment's were merly suggestion's on how to make phpbb that much better for ALL. IMO anyway's.

As said before SHS you need to work on your manner's. That or just avoid dealing with the public and or topics that get you worked up. Sorry but i dont think it's the image people want of a site/company they do business with be it free or not. Your second in command here so i am certain what you say will reflect on phpbb and the rest of those who are a part of it be it developer's, moderator's or any kind of staff/site position.
In short. Think about them and not yourself. You and the rest i am almost certain sees what get's posted at the other bb's or website development forums.
You may not think much about SMF but let me ask you this? Who or where were they a couple of years ago? I believe you get the point to that question.
I know you can care less about them BUT dont ruin a good thing HERE by letting your attitude problem run freely. Alot of us wanna see this project go on as long as possible and i believe it will get rather short lived if you keep chasing people away with your attitude. Which SMF ( One site among others i have noted this happening on and they are not just bb developer sites either ) proves is happening by the endless parade of people there who come from here complaining of the attitudes here. As said WHO or where was SMF a couple of yrs ago? Note thier membership and logged in users any time of the day. I find that rather amazing considering that i think phpbb 3 has a overall better look and features to it. Perhaps now you get my point.

I understand what you said above for your reasoning/excuse for your attitude BUT how many other people will actually visit this thread and know that the next time you go biting someones head off either here or over at the main site?

Hopefully you dont take my SUGGESTION'S as a attack. Not meant to be that way.

Thanks for the candid reply.
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Highway of Life
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Re: Olympus vs. the rest

Post by Highway of Life »

Alenônimo wrote: I'm a little disapointed with the fact that phpBB doesn't come with Quick Reply too. The users from my forum love this feature and all the new BB systems (SMF, vBulletin, IPB, etc) are coming with that. Why not implement this? :(

By now, I'm sticking with the SMF.

You can stick with SMF if you want... but over Quick Reply, that seems silly, even when 3 or 4 versions of QR already exist as a MOD. (see my sig).

The truth is that... (once again), it's up to the Developmers... they can do whatever they want, this is a an open-source project, not a pain-for-by-members project. So the Devs have the final say.
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Highway of Life
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Re: Olympus vs. the rest

Post by Highway of Life »

Acyd Burn wrote: Regarding feature requests... since we feature froze 3.0.x (and to some extend 3.2.x) we closed our feature request tracker, therefore the link to the tracker had been removed. With the amount of current requests made by our users we could do +10 further revisions. :)
LOL, or you could save yourself the hassle... and just let us build MODs :D

Acyd Burn wrote: I for one never was unpatient or not friendly, neither anyone from my team as far as i know. You also need to differate between the development team, the moderators, the support team, the mod team, the styles team, etc. because they are all very different and the development team has the lowest post count of all. To actually look at who said something might help too if people say (only a example, this never happened): "hey, a developer said that subsilver2 will not be released with the final" where maybe a support team member said this once - purely speculating and also said so - and everyone thinks it is a statement 100% true given by the development team (who would be the only ones able to confirm it).

Of course every team member is instructed to be as friendly as possible, even if handling the same question the 1000th time.
Acyd Burn... you are the greatest!

It's difficult to put into words how much we appreciate all that you do, and it would be a travesty if I just relegated my thanks to the "thanks topic" on phpBB.
But we are all very thankful for everything you do... and put the rest of us to shame with your friendliness.
I don't think the dumbest idiot could acuse you of being unfriendly. :D :D

Thanks!!!
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Graham
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Re: Olympus vs. the rest

Post by Graham »

A forum will be provided for MOD Authors to utilize at a later date when the code is stable enough to support it. At this point in time writing MODs is a pointless exercise because the code can and still will change and we have been quite clear on this point and will not to anything which encourages people to waste their time like that.

TwistedWeather if you have issues with a team member, take it up with them or a team leader in private, please don't keep derailing topics over it
"So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish"

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code reader
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Re: Olympus vs. the rest

Post by code reader »

2 points:
1: i also think, like graham, that it is really a bad idea now to have mods floating around.
however, my reasoning takes a slightly different angle:
i dont think that the fact that the code is not final and hence the mod author "waste their time" is valid. it should be fairly easy to follow any future change to the code an incorporate it into your mod.
however, dealing with mods now has a serious negative effect on beta: if you have even the smallest mod installed, you can't really test the main product, and you cant report bugs. hence, imo, playing with mods now is very counterproductive for anyone whos main goal (as far as olympus is concerned) is to see it out the door asap.

as to graham's 2nd point:
TwistedWeather if you have issues with a team member, take it up with them or a team leader in private, please don't keep derailing topics over it
twisi, TwistedWeather does not "have an issue with a team member".
he was pointing to a general issue, that is, team members' attitude towards users. he just brought shs' response as an example. i am sorry to say that in general, i tend to agree with him: traditionally, in phpbb community, there is much more abuse from the team members towards users than any other similar community i ever saw.
on the bright side, it is worth pointing that this "attitude issue" had improved significantly in the last several months.

and acyd: in this regards (team attitude towards users), the "weakest link" principle applies: kudos to you for always being polite and courteous, but unfortunately the team is judged based on the worst behavior, not the best.
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Re: Olympus vs. the rest

Post by DragonlordP »

code reader wrote: twisi, TwistedWeather does not "have an issue with a team member".
he was pointing to a general issue, that is, team members' attitude towards users. he just brought shs' response as an example. i am sorry to say that in general, i tend to agree with him: traditionally, in phpbb community, there is much more abuse from the team members towards users than any other similar community i ever saw.
on the bright side, it is worth pointing that this "attitude issue" had improved significantly in the last several months.

and acyd: in this regards (team attitude towards users), the "weakest link" principle applies: kudos to you for always being polite and courteous, but unfortunately the team is judged based on the worst behavior, not the best.

I'm also sorry I have to agree, being a member here for almost 3 years now that's what I've seen too. Thanks to Acyd Burn (who I think is a much more open-minded man than psotfx) for raising the level, but there's some work than can be done on this aspect.
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Klors
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Re: Olympus vs. the rest

Post by Klors »

Twistedweather, you often come across as argumentative and abrasive whenever I've seen you post.

SHS' is usually pretty direct and to the point. However, I can recall very few situations in which I've read anything by the phpbb team where I wouldn't have been at least as abrupt with people. Especially considering the amount of times it's comments made or questions asked repeatedly where even the simplest bit of reading of the rules or searching past topics would have yielded results galore.

I've been floating around here for the past 3 or 4 years. The amount of people I've seen post telling the phpbb team what they should be doing, how they should be doing it and what they're doing wrong would drive anyone to distraction. Usually they're misinformed, ill-mannered, badly written, uneducated, badly researched piles of drivel. Sometimes, though not often, they have a point but it's so badly presented that you'd be hard pushed to find it.

Many people also seem to confuse this project with some kind of commercial venture that needs people's backing in order to keep it going. That's not to say they seem unmindful of how people use it and what people think about it, but it doesn't seem to me to drive their decision-making process.

Lastly, for crying out loud, answering inside quote blocks makes for incredibly hard and confusing reading. Whether you care or not, the way you write on the internet is exactly how you will be perceived, you can't see the "intention behind the text" or "the tone in which it's written" you can only see the text and infer your own meaning.
TwistedWeather
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Re: Olympus vs. the rest

Post by TwistedWeather »

Klors wrote: Twistedweather, you often come across as argumentative and abrasive whenever I've seen you post.

SHS' is usually pretty direct and to the point. However, I can recall very few situations in which I've read anything by the phpbb team where I wouldn't have been at least as abrupt with people. Especially considering the amount of times it's comments made or questions asked repeatedly where even the simplest bit of reading of the rules or searching past topics would have yielded results galore.

I've been floating around here for the past 3 or 4 years. The amount of people I've seen post telling the phpbb team what they should be doing, how they should be doing it and what they're doing wrong would drive anyone to distraction. Usually they're misinformed, ill-mannered, badly written, uneducated, badly researched piles of drivel. Sometimes, though not often, they have a point but it's so badly presented that you'd be hard pushed to find it.

Many people also seem to confuse this project with some kind of commercial venture that needs people's backing in order to keep it going. That's not to say they seem unmindful of how people use it and what people think about it, but it doesn't seem to me to drive their decision-making process.

Lastly, for crying out loud, answering inside quote blocks makes for incredibly hard and confusing reading. Whether you care or not, the way you write on the internet is exactly how you will be perceived, you can't see the "intention behind the text" or "the tone in which it's written" you can only see the text and infer your own meaning.


Thank you for the feedback on myself. I'll admit to being lazy when i made that reply. :oops:

And i do apologize for comming across that way. As said thanks for letting me know.
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