Sugestion - Hook system like on vB 3.5

Discussion of general topics related to the new version and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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whitenexx
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Re: Sugestion - Hook system like on vB 3.5

Post by whitenexx »

I hope you Guys will integrate a PluginSystem in phpBB3 next time! It`s very usefull!
If still is a update for phpBB3 avaible, you can just Update and the Plugins/Mods are aviable in the updatet Version too!
@Developers Look into Joomla/Mambo;Gallery2 or vBulletin! The Systems are professional very good!
I hope you understand us Users...
GreetZ from Germany!
Sorry for my bad english!
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Kail
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Re: Sugestion - Hook system like on vB 3.5

Post by Kail »

smithy_dll: I don't follow you and I find your metaphor totally inaccurate here. Of course you need technical skill to run any website or forum but a plugin system doesn't necessarily mean people will understand less of what they're doing. How many people haven't installed MODs like monkeys, doing as the MOD says, exactly without understand what it does?

As for CPU cycles, I'd like to see some real numbers here. The only thing that could consume potential CPU cycles would be the application checking for new plugins which is when it scans a directory for modules, but that's about it. I see the benefits of throttling functionality in realtime a much more compelling argument when it comes to CPU cycles since you can actually keep your site floating even under very heavy load.

For me it's a no brainer and I think phpBB will eventually end up second to a number of open source message board applications that are 1) easier to use and 2) whose developers have a better ear for what their users are asking for. Plugin-style module support will be necessary, perhaps not right now, but it should be a high priority for the next major release after v3.
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whitenexx
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Re: Sugestion - Hook system like on vB 3.5

Post by whitenexx »

jes! That`s true! Maybe the delevopers include a Pluginsystem in the phpBB 3.1.x or even earlier.
I hope so. If phpBB3 had a Pluginsystem, it would be a big konkurenz for vB.
wbb and ipb doesn`t have a chance I think.
It would be nice to hear "vB vs. phpBB3" ;)
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Mark The Daemon
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Re: Sugestion - Hook system like on vB 3.5

Post by Mark The Daemon »

At the end of the day you will need to post it in the Feature Tracker when it reopens for the next major release.

I still think its a really really really bad idea...


Mark
"Microsoft isn't the evil software company everyone thinks they are.
They just make crappy programs..."
Linus Torvalds, Creator of Linux OS

Yoda_IRC
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Re: Sugestion - Hook system like on vB 3.5

Post by Yoda_IRC »

smithy_dll wrote: The same applies here to phpBB w.r.t a hooks system. Implementing a hooks system is a waste of CPU clock cycles carrying around the software system required to hook into the code on the off chance that a plugin would even want to plugin to that section of the code, let alone the change I would use a plugin.
Would it really have much of an effect on CPU cycles? If it uses some kind of object system, overriding the methods of other objects to implement a plugin (not sure if phpBB can actual do this), then surely phpBB wouldn't be checking anything, wouldn't it be php? php would have to do that kind of parsing anyway, maybe as it has more code it would slow it down abit as it needs to interprit more code. But then if you wanted speed why the hell would you be using php? Its inherintly slow as its interpritted. Something written in C++ would execute alot faster as PHP is having to interprit the source code every time you load a page, whereas in something like C++ it would be done at compile time. Of course there is always a trade off, for C++ you would need to recompile everytime you changed a line of code, which would mean having a compiller onboard your machine. Most people would probably download a binary and never see the source so wouldn't publish as many mods.

Kail
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Re: Sugestion - Hook system like on vB 3.5

Post by Kail »

Mark The Daemon wrote: At the end of the day you will need to post it in the Feature Tracker when it reopens for the next major release.

I still think its a really really really bad idea...


Mark
And I think you're really, really, really wrong! :P

Honestly, if you love messing with code nothing will stop you. But the majority of users would truly embrace this, coupled with an online repository of modules similar to what Joomla has it would make it so easy to add features to your board.

It seems a lot of the criticism towards this idea doesn't stem from valid nor relevent technical concerns but plain conservatism. Instead, try thinking about about this from the users' POV and consider what the actual users would appreciate the most. Then be practical and take security concerns seriously. People would be MORE likely upgrade their MODs to keep their boards secure IF it was easier.

None of the arguments raised so far have been good enough IMO. Naturally it's a serious undertaking but the payoff would be great.
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naderman
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Re: Sugestion - Hook system like on vB 3.5

Post by naderman »

Kail wrote:
Mark The Daemon wrote: At the end of the day you will need to post it in the Feature Tracker when it reopens for the next major release.

I still think its a really really really bad idea...


Mark
And I think you're really, really, really wrong! :P

Honestly, if you love messing with code nothing will stop you. But the majority of users would truly embrace this, coupled with an online repository of modules similar to what Joomla has it would make it so easy to add features to your board.

It seems a lot of the criticism towards this idea doesn't stem from valid nor relevent technical concerns but plain conservatism. Instead, try thinking about about this from the users' POV and consider what the actual users would appreciate the most. Then be practical and take security concerns seriously. People would be MORE likely upgrade their MODs to keep their boards secure IF it was easier.

None of the arguments raised so far have been good enough IMO. Naturally it's a serious undertaking but the payoff would be great.
It's great if people write they don't follow other people's arguments and then tell them they only don't like it because they are conservative. Maybe try understand arguments yourself first.

phpBB has (luckily!) never been a system which just copies what other people use but thinks about ideas first and eventually even comes up with new concepts to solve the problem at hand. As I said before the system drupal has (which you seem to like so much) is great for drupal. phpBB would profit much more from a proper MOD dependency system I think. Such a system has not been used in any web application yet but it might work much better than any of these hook systems (hook systems do influence performance, however it can be brought down to a minimum if properly implemented). What happens in the future remains to be seen. phpBB3 will not become Drupal that should be clear. If you want to use drupal, then use drupal and stop complaining here.

Kail
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Re: Sugestion - Hook system like on vB 3.5

Post by Kail »

naderman: You brought Drupal up, recall? I made a reference to Joomla. You have to browse a few pages here to see my last reference to Drupal.

So before you say I am complaining, think for a second. Discussions like these keep open source projects alive. I've contributed significantly to phpBB with time and effort over the course of many, many years and reducing my input as "complaining" is just wrong and I think you shouldn't be so eager to consider views you do not agree with as "complaints".

Reason I called it conservatism is because the arguments presented are not convincing and it seems to boil down to arguments like "we've done it this way and it's worked fine so why consider it?". Well working "fine" is well fine, but what if it can work GREAT instead?

I believe the most important thing about open source development is to keep an open mind. Read the sentence twice. Thru his debate I've seen many people support my ideas so there's clearly a demand for this kind of feature. Reducing it to "complaining" is just simple rhetorics, strawman tactics, totally pointless and adds nothing.
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SamG
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Re: Sugestion - Hook system like on vB 3.5

Post by SamG »

Kail, with all due respect, and in all fairness, things like:
Kail wrote: For me it's a no brainer and I think phpBB will eventually end up second to a number of open source message board applications that are 1) easier to use and 2) whose developers have a better ear for what their users are asking for.
read a little FUDish, or at least could, in my opinion.

I've been advocating for a better way to MOD phpBB since before EasyMOD, so I'm not unsympathetic. But you and I are both aware of where phpBB started and the rough road v3 development has experienced. I think it's premature to say that the devs aren't getting the point. Only time will tell, and I think we can give the devs the benefit of the doubt until then.

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Mark The Daemon
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Re: Sugestion - Hook system like on vB 3.5

Post by Mark The Daemon »

Kail wrote: Honestly, if you love messing with code nothing will stop you. But the majority of users would truly embrace this, coupled with an online repository of modules similar to what Joomla has it would make it so easy to add features to your board.
Am i talking to myself here? I wouldn't want that sort of system forced on me. If i dont use it then to me its bloat. Now EasyMOD, if you want to use it then download it and use it. If you like messing with the code then don't download and use it. Now maybe if the phpBB Group were to create a addon to phpBB3 that allowed you to do this whole system that was a optional componant it would be a happy medium.


Mark
"Microsoft isn't the evil software company everyone thinks they are.
They just make crappy programs..."
Linus Torvalds, Creator of Linux OS

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