Dissecting SubSilver

[vph]

I think the designer of phpBB should do pay more attention into providing a "great" default theme (subSilver). Sources such as this can be very helpful for brainstorming new ideas.

A few comments on the existing subsilver template ... I think it looks too busy too verbose; it shows too much information unnecessarily. For example, take a look at this and tell me that it doesn't look messy. Specifically,

+ The "Topics" and "Posts" columns. How many of us here think that these too columns are useful ? Sure, they are helpful if you want to look for such information, but let me go out on a limb to say that, 99% of the times, nobody actually looks at it. Which, if true, begs the question: why are they taking more than 1% of real estate in the very front page of the forum?

---> Wouldn't it be better to make it so that these information (Topics, Posts) are shown only when a user places his mouse over the forum's name. Right there, you save about 15% of real estate.

I know......... these things can be moded, but if what I argue is right or makes sense, why not do it in the default version? If people like what they see in their first rendezvous if phpBB, I bet phpBB's popularity will increase significantly. First impression counts.


+ Same thing for the Replies and Views in each forum. Almost completely redundant. Alot can be done to save real estate.

+ Now, the "Author" column in each forum. When someone wants to find out who the author of a thread is, what does he have to do? Glance his eyes across the forum, approximately a distance of 2inches. 2'' may not be alot, but if you do this day in day out, it can be real bothersome.

---> Why not do it like vBulletin? The author's name is neatly displayed under the topic's title. Nice. No eye glancing. Very logical.

+ While I'm at it, let me point to the second column from the left in each forum of, apparently, the upcoming 3.0 version. What is the purpose of this column?

Why can't you combine that column with the first column (where the famous golden bell is)? Think about it for a second, and you'll see another column -- or approximately 5% of real estate -- can be saved right there.

+ Let me restraint myself and not talk further about all of the verbose descriptions (lang_main.php). All these can be described in alot simpler terms...


Have you wondered why the fontsize of phpBB boards are so small? Not enough room for everything!!! You'll get used to it after a while, but after you've been to another board and back, it's annoying. Further, it's a big turn off for potential adopters.



The point is this: the net holds massive amounts of information and it shows in places like forums. Not all of these information need to be thrown mercilessly out at users of the community. These information should be selected thoughtfully.

Otherwise, it's a mess.

Just a few constructive points.

[DarsVaeda]

I agree with you.
But as far as i read here, they will provide a new theme upon release of Olympus.
And nobody knows what its like.

[karlsemple]

my thoughts exactly......what has subsilver got to do with this version, it is going to ship with its own template, not to mention half the changes you suggested can be done with simple changes to the files. What you have given is your opinion and they are not going to change the whole setup for one person, as what you think is messy might be perfect to someone else. features you think are pointless maybe essential to someone else. This is why the whole thing is packaged under the gpl license...... so you can change it to specifically to suit your needs. Say they did chang it exactly as you suggested, next week there will be another one of these topics asking why it is not how it is at the present.

[Yawnster]

Personally the only i can say about subsilver is that i feel its very boxy, but apart from that i love it.. Its functional, has aged well, (dont forget it was released around 3 years ago now IIRC), and to be honest although i can see why you are making these comments i dont think that they are hardly the sole reason people are not oging to switch.. The main issue you were bringing up was "real-estate".. does that really matter on the pages you commented on in this reguard, if your monitor is as large as 1024*768 then it shouldnt really be a consideration in terms of space..

As for the second column thing, personally i dont really get it either, but im sure that there will be alot of changes to the style been now and the final release so all of this may change anyway..

Yawnster

[cooleo100d]

To make all of the changes you said, all you would have to know is basic HTML.

I agree with some of your changes, and I may even make some of them to my forum.

Also, like people have said, the new style that no one has seen yet might implement all of these.

[vph]

There's something called inertia, and those who are involved in lasting projects should be very well aware of it. There are things that are not quite technical errors but redundant, and these things tend to last for ever until it becomes part of you and it'll take forever to fix it -- despite it takes just a few small actions; some html modifications (which btw would probably conflict technically with official releases).

The interface to users is so important, I personally feel it's a mistake to put all possible information for user to see, and they can customize if they want to.

Unfortunately, many coders don't care too much about aethestic. Here's another example, description of forums. Take a look at vBulletin. One forum is named: vBulletin 3.5 Suggestions and Feedback and its description is this: Please use this forum to post feedback and suggestions related to vBulletin 3.5. I don't know about you, but after reading the title, do you think someone would find its description more revealing? Most forums' descriptions are like that. Why? The reason is that the forum's name is meaningful enough that they don't know what more to write in the description. Forum descriptions are useless if the names are self-explanatory, and most cases they are!!! But these people take the effort to write hopelessly redundant descriptions anyway. Why? Because they can.

So to the designers, Why not take these descriptions away? Put them inside the forum view, not on the front page. At least make it a default setup .

Why do I keep saying these things? Well, you see. Peoplel still provide these redundant information to clutter up real estate, even though they have the option not to do it. So how likely is that these people will make the effort to modify the HTML of the default template to reduce these redundant display of information? Very unlikely.

If the designers of the system are more thoughtful, they could do that a priori. Why not do that to improve the experience. I'm writing all this in hope the 3.0 folks will take a look.



Now comes the almost too-easy question, what do you do more with more real estate? Anything useful ... and trust me there are a lot more you can do, after hiding all of these so uninformative information such as # of Threads, # of Posts, forum descriptions on the front page, etc. Here's one: instead of listing one forum after another, why not put TWO forums per row, horizontally, on the front page ???

On the front page (index.php), the only things I feel worth any real estate are forum name, moderators, recent poster(s) and topic title(s). These things can be compressed very logically and neatly into 1/2 of a row. Of course, those less important information shouldn't be denied from users, but they should be hidden and shown only when they are requested explicitly. With all of these AJAX thing, it's a piece of cake. If you don't have many forums, people can actually see them all without scrolling down. How's great is that?

Just a few more thoughts.

[SHS`]

dont forget it was released around 3 years ago now IIRC

4 and a half years actually. subSilver went into phpBB2 CVS on the 25th September 2001...

[cooleo100d]

Here's what I suggest to you.

Wait for the new theme to come out, or just wait for beta.

Then why not create your own template, and submit it?

That way, people can download your template, and you get credit for it.

Maybe even just take this style, and make your desired changes, and distribute the template.

This is a better idea because if they put two forums in one row people would go crazy. If they have a choice to download a template that does that, then it would be good.

[subBlue]

I think the designer of phpBB should do pay more attention into providing a "great" default theme (subSilver).

Hi vph,
You have raised some valid points in your first post, while others I feel are subjective to your own personal preferences. The new style for phpBB is quite different from the current subSilver style everyone has seen so far. I started development on it almost 2 years ago and so there has been a lot of thought and consideration on nearly every aspect of the design! Rather than address each of the suggestions you made I will tell you that some aspects of the style will be new for forums designs, while others maintain the heritage that has grown with phpBB over the years.

[cooleo100d]

Hi vph,
You have raised some valid points in your first post, while others I feel are subjective to your own personal preferences. The new style for phpBB is quite different from the current subSilver style everyone has seen so far. I started development on it almost 2 years ago and so there has been a lot of thought and consideration on nearly every aspect of the design! Rather than address each of the suggestions you made I will tell you that some aspects of the style will be new for forums designs, while others maintain the heritage that has grown with phpBB over the years.

Every time you write about the secret style it makes me want to see it more and more.