honestly..

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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Lord Illicious
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Re: honestly..

Post by Lord Illicious »

Im dedicated to this phpbb because i think its the best free forum you can get with tons of support and much promise but i too wonder at times when the next release will be.

Thoe ill admit i too grow restless sometimes wondering when the next release will be.

Them years waiting seems very long and i often doubt it will ever be released but as i can see here in this pre-release phpbb the time ive waited sure has showed me the develpers have done a great job.

Ide sometimes like to please hurry up or ask when is the next dam release but thats only because im angcious to have this great looking forum.
So no, i wouldnt say hurry up or when will (even thoe sometimes i feel like asking) because i know in the end i will have a great forum for free thanks to all thoes involved and who have contributed.

At times i also feel maybe i should just install the latest snapshot but the problem is its not stable, there will be no support for snapshots and it could ruin my forum data history.

All i can say or advise is ok ask away when but you will know the answer youll get. Best just to take the advice of - it will be done when its done or seek another forum.
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Glorius Hole
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Re: honestly..

Post by Glorius Hole »

I have nothing but respect for the developers past and present, I have nothing but patience for the project as a whole... But I've read several blogs up to this point and I'm not very impressed with the comments in them.

Just because people are complaining, or being arseholes for want of a better word, you don't insult them, call thems spineless or whatever regardless of if they deserv it. It just shows a lack of integrity in my opinion, indicating you haven't got much to show for a response to their complaints and moans so you're resorting to petty insults to satisfy yourself.

Calm it down, you'll loose more support by insulting people than you would if you just said nothing at all. I know trying to ingore something so blatent is difficult, especially when you feel like you've been chewed up and spit out, and maybe on some occasions a bloody good vent is called for, but that's on occasions where a communitie of thousands isn't the audience, intended or otherwise.

The insults may well have been aimed at the people who deserved it and those poeple may well get the message, but people like me who've attempted to stick with the project are also effected by the comments. It gives us a general idea of your character, bowing to pressure. I find it overly pathetic how you could lower yourselves to their levels.

Sorry for that rant but I needed to say it.

Martin Blank
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Re: honestly..

Post by Martin Blank »

Martin Blank wrote: If you've really been here this long, then you've seen these kinds of discussions come up before, and you've seen where they lead.
Thank you, people, for proving my point.
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.

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Techie-Micheal
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Re: honestly..

Post by Techie-Micheal »

Glorius Hole wrote: I have nothing but respect for the developers past and present, I have nothing but patience for the project as a whole... But I've read several blogs up to this point and I'm not very impressed with the comments in them.

Just because people are complaining, or being arseholes for want of a better word, you don't insult them, call thems spineless or whatever regardless of if they deserv it. It just shows a lack of integrity in my opinion, indicating you haven't got much to show for a response to their complaints and moans so you're resorting to petty insults to satisfy yourself.

Calm it down, you'll loose more support by insulting people than you would if you just said nothing at all. I know trying to ingore something so blatent is difficult, especially when you feel like you've been chewed up and spit out, and maybe on some occasions a bloody good vent is called for, but that's on occasions where a communitie of thousands isn't the audience, intended or otherwise.

The insults may well have been aimed at the people who deserved it and those poeple may well get the message, but people like me who've attempted to stick with the project are also effected by the comments. It gives us a general idea of your character, bowing to pressure. I find it overly pathetic how you could lower yourselves to their levels.

Sorry for that rant but I needed to say it.
If you have something against my blog, say it on my blog. It is my personal thoughts, not those of phpBB. Hence why it is hosted on my personal site. With regards to your comments, fine, I see your point, but I have been here for years and never before have I seen such disrespect for the project by the community as a whole. As I also mentioned in my blog, I know full well it is the minority that is the problem, not the majority. To the majority, I apologized and continue to apologize, but I think I'm allowed some personal feelings once in a while.

To the poster who thinks phpBB is stagnant, you haven't been paying attention to CVS lately, have you? We are gearing up for a 2.0.18 release, and a large number of lines of code for Olympus have also been committed in just the last couple of weeks. As I also stated in my blog, a lot of things are happening to make phpBB even stronger than what it is.

guice
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Re: honestly..

Post by guice »

Wow, such a backlash. It's posts like that, from the support team, that makes me loose hope in phpBB. I'm sure I'll also get a backlashing from this post, but Micheal that post was uncalled for.

He never said it was your blog, you're assuming it was your blog. Your blog isn't the only blog talking about phpBB3 development.

Now, I have watched the CVS myself (I'm actually on the checkins mailing list) and I'm quite pleased to finally see life in phpBB again. But until the "Support Team" realizes that people are starting to get a bit "antsy" after a 2 years, phpBB folks is going to loose their community before they gain it (within phpBB3).

I like what's going on, but you honestly have to realize that after 2 years of development, it gets a bit ... "when it's ready." old.

I'm not trying to start any fights here. I'm jus trying to get the "Support Team" to understand where these people are coming from. I understand your frustrations with them, but again, it's been 2+ years and people are concerned. Don't expect to get any major "woohoos" from the community until you actual make through on the promisses of Beta, RCs, etc. Cause at this time, after 2 years, any possibility of hope has been washed away by delays and doubts.



Sorry ... I know people will get peeved at this post and hell, might even get the ban, but it was needed to be said after Micheal's backlashing for no reason.

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Techie-Micheal
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Re: honestly..

Post by Techie-Micheal »

guice wrote: Wow, such a backlash. It's posts like that, from the support team, that makes me loose hope in phpBB. I'm sure I'll also get a backlashing from this post, but Micheal that post was uncalled for.
Please tell me where my post was a backlash. I stated it in a calm manner.
He never said it was your blog, you're assuming it was your blog. Your blog isn't the only blog talking about phpBB3 development.
I have a reasonable suspicion it was my blog he was referring as he said verbatim phrases that are in my blog.
Now, I have watched the CVS myself (I'm actually on the checkins mailing list) and I'm quite pleased to finally see life in phpBB again. But until the "Support Team" realizes that people are starting to get a bit "antsy" after a 2 years, phpBB folks is going to loose their community before they gain it (within phpBB).
You think the internal teams are not getting antsy either? You think we are not bothered by how long it is taking?
I like what's going on, but you honestly have to realize that after 2 years of development, it gets a bit ... "when it's ready." old.
That's because we have no other answer to give you. I wish we did, but we don't.
I'm not trying to start any fights here. I'm jus trying to get the "Support Team" to understand where these people are coming from. I understand your frustrations with them, but again, it's been 2+ years and people are concerned. Don't expect to get any major "woohoos" from the community until you actual make through on the promisses of Beta, RCs, etc. Cause at this time, after 2 years, any possibility of hope has been washed away by delays and doubts.
I'm not either. I want you to see where I am coming from an internal point of view. I support users gladly and proudly. But then complaints, bashings, threats only pull us down and take the joy out of helping people. I realize you can't please everybody, but a "thank you" once a while would certainly help.
Sorry ... I know people will get peeved at this post and hell, might even get the ban,
We don't ban people for posts like yours. Despite what you may think, we are not that bad here. ;)
but it was needed to be said after Micheal's backlashing for no reason.
I think I had a reason, and it wasn't even an attack. I stated my comments in a calm manner, it wasn't personal.

I simply want people to understand the frustration from an internal point of view. It isn't easy day in and day out seeing comments that accuse phpBB of being a dead project or accuse phpBB of being this or that.

If it'll make everybody happy, I'll stay out of this now.

Edit: It'd help if I could speel. :P
Edit 2: I really need a grammar checker ...

APTX
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Re: honestly..

Post by APTX »

Micheal wrote: Edit 2: I really need a grammar checker ...
You really should add Spelling Cow or whatever as long as it checks the spelling...
Don't give me my freedom out of pity!

guice
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Re: honestly..

Post by guice »

lease tell me where my post was a backlash. I stated it in a calm manner.
My apologies. I mistook your intial as more of a direct statement instead of a request: If you have something against my blog, say it on my blog.. When I read it, after reading the first page about "I hope you get ban" comments, I took it as a rather harsh statement, more like a stern comment implaying don't bring this type of thing public.
I have a reasonable suspicion it was my blog he was referring as he said verbatim phrases that are in my blog.
Not a problem in that. Suspicion is fine. I see how quotes from your blog could definatly lead one to assume it was your blog. But as always, it's just an assumption in which does still have the possibility somebody else could have plagerized your work while posting on their blog about something they read on yours.
That's because we have no other answer to give you. I wish we did, but we don't.
This I can understand, too. Maybe more of personal thought being statements would assist a bit? "Okay, yes, dev has stopped in the past for multiple months, but seems like things are finally picking back up." As an "internal" you have more views into things than the general public. Public opinions on the professional site means more to the community than keeping everything hush hush.
We don't ban people for posts like yours. Despite what you may think, we are not that bad here. Wink
Sorry again, that was spoken in context from some, apperent, hostal remarks made on the front page of this post. Including one wishing the person would get banned. I would have been shocked and brushed if I did get banned. It would have just been the right "shove" I would have needed to push me completely away from phpBB3. No community software project has ever taken this long, hense why the depressing posts.
I simply want people to understand the frustration from an internal point of view. It isn't easy day in and day out seeing comments that accuse phpBB of being a dead project or accuse phpBB of being this or that.
Being an outside guy looking in, it's hard to see what an inside person sees looking out. Isn't there something the inside guys can do to "presure" the development? I don't mean be pushy or anything. What I do mean is within the past year, there has been maybe a full 3-4 months (I'm reluctant in saying upto 6) of actual development, if you collapse all the dead space. That's not going to cut it for a project of this mangatude. This is what kills many open source projects as they soon learn they have problems managing the load required for a project that has grown beyond their initial intent. This is also why companies like the Mozilla Foundation has going through massive reconstructions in order to support the required load.

From what I see, it sounds like phpBB is still a "back of the garage" project. It's grown much more than that and now it requires the staff, "professional" organization and commitment to hold it. posFX left partially, from what I gathered, cause it was still his part time job/hobby that was impeeding on his full time job. Well, I hate to break, but it would seem to me phpBB should now be a full time job; however, it appears people aren't wanting to push it to that level.


Edit; some rephrase. Reading just isn't my forte
Last edited by guice on Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:41 pm, edited 3 times in total.

guice
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Re: honestly..

Post by guice »

Lord Illicious, can you fix your sig, please. Thanks.

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Techie-Micheal
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Re: honestly..

Post by Techie-Micheal »

guice wrote:
lease tell me where my post was a backlash. I stated it in a calm manner.
My apologies. I mistook your intial as more of a direct statement instead of a request: If you have something against my blog, say it on my blog.. When I read it, after reading the first page about "I hope you get ban" comments, I took it as a rather harsh statement, more like a stern comment implaying don't bring this type of thing public.
Fair enough, I can see how it could be taken like that. :) I didn't mean it that way, but I can see how it could be taken that way.
I have a reasonable suspicion it was my blog he was referring as he said verbatim phrases that are in my blog.
Not a problem in that. Suspicion is fine. I see how quotes from your blog could definatly lead one to assume it was your blog. But as always, it's just an assumption in which does still have the possibility somebody else could have plagerized your work while posting on their blog about something they read on yours.
True. :P
That's because we have no other answer to give you. I wish we did, but we don't.
This I can understand, too. Maybe more of personal thought being statements would assist a bit? "Okay, yes, dev has stopped in the past for multiple months, but seems like things are finally picking back up." As an "internal" you have more views into things than the general public. Public opinions on the professional site means more to the community than keeping everything hush hush.
Fair point here too. I'll see if I can bring that up. No promises of course, as I'm not a dev and don't have much to do with that sector.
[/quote]
We don't ban people for posts like yours. Despite what you may think, we are not that bad here. Wink
Sorry again, that was spoken in context from some, apperent, hostal remarks made on the front page of this post. Including one wishing the person would get banned. I would have been shocked and brushed if I did get banned. It would have just been the right "shove" I would have needed to push me completely away from phpBB3. No community software project has ever taken this long, hense why the depressing posts.
Cheers. :) I have big plans for 3.0 for my own sites, so yes, I'm very much interested in seeing it released, as both a user and as an internal. As has been said in other topics here, some personal problems with the devs have creeped up, causing issues. As has been said elsewhere, a meeting was recently held in which the administrators of phpBB accomplished quite a bit in working on what to do now that psoTFX is no longer a developer. Some changes have already been made (Graham is now a full-fledged developer), and changes are yet to be made. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm giving you the run-around here, but several things are internal only (which will eventually affect everybody), others are public, such as Graham moving to developer status, etc.
I simply want people to understand the frustration from an internal point of view. It isn't easy day in and day out seeing comments that accuse phpBB of being a dead project or accuse phpBB of being this or that.
Being an outside guy looking in, it's hard to see what an inside person sees looking out. Isn't there something the inside guys can do to "presure" the development? I don't mean be pushy or anything. What I do mean is within the past year, there has been maybe a full 3-4 months (I'm reluctant in saying upto 6) of actual development, if you collapse all the dead space. That's not going to cut it for a project of this mangatude. This is what kills many open source projects as they soon learn they have problems managing the load required for a project that has grown beyond their initial intent. This is also why companies like the Mozilla Foundation has going through massive reconstructions in order to support the required load.
Stream of consciousness made me reply to this to your comment above. :P Basically, changes being made are already speeding up development quite a bit. :)
From what I see, it sounds like phpBB is still a "back of the garage" project. It's grown much more than that and now it requires the staff, "professional" organization and commitment to hold it. posFX left partially, from what I gathered, cause it was still his part time job/hobby that was impeeding on his full time job. Well, I hate to break, but it would seem to me phpBB should now be a full time job; however, it appears people aren't wanting to push it to that level.


Edit; some rephrase. Reading just isn't my forte
Yes and no. We still want that community feel, and not the corporate feel. To me, there is just a different feel, even of you change some names and so on. But that's just me. No, because we have structured phpBB in such a way that if (God forbid) something were to happen to anybody along the way, the team can pick back up and go.

I'm not revealing anything new here (just old information that I think is long lost here on area51), our team is structured something like this:

Project Manager(s) - These are the people responsible for overseeing development and other related activities
Developers - We all know what they do :P
Team Leaders - These are the guys responsible for overseeing their respective teams and help administer day to day activities of phpBB
Teams - Each individual team. Support, MOD, Moderator, etc.

In a way, I guess you could say this is a corporate setup without the corporate entity feel.

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