PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Discussion of general topics related to the new version and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Renegade88
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by Renegade88 »

SHS wrote:phpBB2.2.0 will be released in 2004.
That is basically my point in a nutshell. I think a prediction resolution of a year is a little silly. Is it too much to ask to predict which quarter? While I understand specific dates wouldn't work, surely this could be narrowed down to a month, right?
SHS wrote:Always a bad thing to assume (make an ass of you and me).
I'm not assuming anything. The original poster got lambasted for making what I thought was a reasonable point. I've seen lynch mob mentality with fiercely loyal users before, so it's not surprising.
SHS wrote:If the code works for you, great, if it doesn't quite fit the bill, you're welcome to make whatever changes you wish as long as it's in compliance with GPL... if something else fits the bill better and you prefer using that... so be it.
Okay, I am perfectly capable of doing this, I have already done it. However, I need to spend my time elsewhere right now. I am talking about straight up vanilla versions of these BBs. People have projects due "in 2004", and need to make a decision what direction to take and how much risk is involved with each decision.
SHS wrote:So it obviously works for them...
What works for them? version 2.0? I am using 2.0.6 and it "works". But I want these new bells and whistles that 2.2 is promising. But if we are talking about winter 2004, and other acceptable options are available today, and I need this by late spring, it's an easy decision. That "greatest forum on the internet" sounds like "pride goeth before the fall" to me. Yes you have some very devoted fans. I have used phpBB since 1.4.2, and I like it. But I am not SOO loyal that I stop making reasonable decisions about the current options.

Thanks for the status, but I don't think I am alone with I say a target of "2004" after this much time is not a reasonable answer. Sorry, just the way I feel.
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SHS`
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by SHS` »

Renegade88 wrote: That is basically my point in a nutshell. I think a prediction resolution of a year is a little silly. Is it too much to ask to predict which quarter? While I understand specific dates wouldn't work, surely this could be narrowed down to a month, right?.
In one sentence you're asking for a quarter, and in another you want to be more specific down to a month? You do state a resolution down to a day would be unreasonable, but I guess accuracy of a week isn't "unreasonable"? In that already there's almost a 12 fold difference in accuracy.

Whilst the developers are in their own mind probably do have it down to a month, and my own guestimates seeing progress at CVS and generally how fast 2.0.x developed... I think I have in my own mind which month that would be.

But give it a 4 fold (quarterly) leeway... it'd be difficult to say which one of Q1, Q2, Q3, or Q4 it might fall on.

Though I will say phpBB2.2 will be released either H1 or H2 2004... that any better? :P
Renegade88 wrote: I'm not assuming anything. The original poster got lambasted for making what I thought was a reasonable point. I've seen lynch mob mentality with fiercely loyal users before, so it's not surprising. .
Right, lets see... someone comes in with absolutely no history and quite clearly states that the developers need to hurry up just because said two companies have their own development schedual?

I frankly see that as trolling, badly too I might add.

Development for phpBB2.2 will happen at the pace planning and implimentation can coherrently proceed.
Renegade88 wrote: Okay, I am perfectly capable of doing this, I have already done it. However, I need to spend my time elsewhere right now. I am talking about straight up vanilla versions of these BBs. People have projects due "in 2004", and need to make a decision what direction to take and how much risk is involved with each decision..
If you are well capable of doing this, then why don't you? If you percieve that current 2.2 CVS is closer to what you need in terms foundation, use it... but is vB or IPB are closer to what you need, use them.

Though if the foundation of the basis of phpBB2.2 is too different to what you want and requires more rework for your implimentation... then time would obviously be better spent. The converse is also true regarding the foundations upon which vB or IPB are built upon.
Renegade88 wrote: What works for them? version 2.0? I am using 2.0.6 and it "works". But I want these new bells and whistles that 2.2 is promising. But if we are talking about winter 2004, and other acceptable options are available today, and I need this by late spring, it's an easy decision. That "greatest forum on the internet" sounds like "pride goeth before the fall" to me. Yes you have some very devoted fans. I have used phpBB since 1.4.2, and I like it. But I am not SOO loyal that I stop making reasonable decisions about the current options.
I've lost count how many times it's been said, but if something else if better suits in your humble opinion... use it.

From the milestones, most of the core features are already there as after M4, there would/should be no new additional features and would then be a case of bug hunting... so really, on balance you could use phpBB2.2 or anything else you may deem as a better fit as for whatever you are doing, there wouild be rework anyway.

There is no "Thoust shall useth phpBB"... Heck, we're even going as far as telling you to use something completely different if it better suits your needs at the current time or perhaps future time if you have planned how things may be extended in the future.

Demanding that development should hurry up usually delays things as time and effort is being detracted from getting the next version "done".
Renegade88 wrote: Thanks for the status, but I don't think I am alone with I say a target of "2004" after this much time is not a reasonable answer. Sorry, just the way I feel.
How about we turned it around... you say you needed to have your project done by "late spring" so I'll just pick the month of April, from the 1st till the 30th.

Can you say which day you'd be able to deliver your solution on? Unlikely... you might be able to say which week or less specifically first half or latter half.

But in the end you still said "late spring"... which depending where you are could be March, April or May.
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A_Jelly_Doughnut
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by A_Jelly_Doughnut »

Renegade88 wrote:version 2.2 has been in the making for over a year, right?
phpBB 2.1.1 was "released", or tagged more accurately, in October 2002. 2.1.2 was tagged in July 2003. It has been stated that the developers would have liked to have had 2.1.3 complete a few months ago. I also remember very distinctly reading that "phpBB 2.2 will be released in 2003".

If they can't even get the year right, how can you even begin to think that they could get the half, quarter, month, week or day right? I have in my own mind a that 2004 final release may well be pushing it. They still have to tag M3 and begin M4. It isn't illogical to spend 6 months or so in the Beta stage.

Everything else you've said has been replied to by SHS` and I agree in full with him. I also realize that SHS` and psoTFX should know far more than I do. I am basing this post (as them) on supposition, history and what other people have said (as supposition).
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Draegonis
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by Draegonis »

A_Jelly_Doughnut wrote:I also realize that SHS` and psoTFX should know far more than I do. I am basing this post (as them) on supposition, history and what other people have said (as supposition).
Well done for realising that. Had you realised that a few paragraphs earlier, you might have realised how foolish making such a post really is.
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SHS`
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by SHS` »

A_Jelly_Doughnut wrote:I also remember very distinctly reading that "phpBB 2.2 will be released in 2003".
I can assure you that you haven't read that.

The fact that "it'll be released in 2004" is a comparatively new revelation...

http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.ph ... 004#917023" target="_blank
A_Jelly_Doughnut wrote: If they can't even get the year right, how can you even begin to think that they could get the half, quarter, month, week or day right? I have in my own mind a that 2004 final release may well be pushing it. They still have to tag M3 and begin M4. It isn't illogical to spend 6 months or so in the Beta stage.
Flaming & trolling? Cute.

Read my point above.
A_Jelly_Doughnut wrote: Everything else you've said has been replied to by SHS` and I agree in full with him. I also realize that SHS` and psoTFX should know far more than I do. I am basing this post (as them) on supposition, history and what other people have said (as supposition).
Only the developers know, and what they choose to divulge privately and/or publically is completely up to them.

Assumption makes and ass of yourself.
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lwq
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by lwq »

i also feel that this is a bit slow but then developers need to eat ,sleep,work and do other things like normal people and also they need time to think and try to fit in the right code,i will continue to wait till this beta release....( and also a small problem with phpbb 2.2,i did not login and wanted to post a reply, it just say i can't reply,why don't include a login box below?)
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psoTFX
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by psoTFX »

sigh, ya know it's really disheartening to see some of the comments in this and related topics. If we're not being told to hurry up we're being told to include X feature because "IPB has it and I'll use that if you don't do it". But ya know what? We're not IPS, our aim is not to include every feature being discussed by other boards because we're scared of losing (or not gaining) users to swell our coffers. We're not Jelsoft for similar reasons. We do things the way we want to (hopefully) benefit a majority of our users.

Do you all not think we too believe development has been "slow"? Do you all think we're flat out plain stupid? I wanted 2.2 out last year (I do not recall saying 2.2 would be out last year AJD). Unlike Jelsoft or IPS we do not have £100,000+ or whatever net revenues from phpBB. We cannot afford to open "offices" for phpBB. We cannot give up on other day to day activities and be supported by phpBB. We do this as a side task ... giving something to everyone for nothing. That means that phpBB sometimes has to take a back seat.

Would adding more developers speed things up? No, not necessarily ... and yes I have plenty of experience on this project of what adding "I can code in X dozen languages!" people can ultimately achieve. phpBB has had it's fair share of "hangers on". And in most cases I or another "committed" developer have had to clean up their mess. That simply becomes a complete waste of our time.

phpBB 2.2.0 will be ready when it's ready ... it's already in a fairly useable state (though remains unsupported). All going we'll hopefully reach beta sometime in Spring. Given how stable phpBB traditionally has been a full release probably won't be too far behind. Now, if see anyone, anyone at all say "So we can expect it by 30th May??!" ... I'll ban them, no joke, I absolutely positively mean it ;) I'm going out on a limb saying what I've said, do not make me regret it.
Renegade88
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by Renegade88 »

I sincerely thank you for traversing that limb, psoTFX.

In 2004, the summer solstice is June 20, 00:57 GMT

So basically, everyone hold your tongues until after then! :P
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by psoTFX »

Hold your tounges full stop ;) I've made no promises whatsoever ... indeed this is the exact reason why I really hate giving any even relatively wide idea of release dates.
GP4Flo
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by GP4Flo »

Take your time to finish it. At the moment I'm absolutely happy with my phpBB 2.0.6 and some nice mods (like caching and attachments).
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