PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Shining Arcanine
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by Shining Arcanine »

The low query count is only obtainable with caching and without the caching, queries would shoot through the roof. Infact, having uncached templates makes the query count rise one query per an uncached template.
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psoTFX
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by psoTFX »

ah well, there you go. While query counts do not a load hog alone make ... it would appear that some "questionable" design decisions may have been made. Again I add my previous disclaimer :)
Shining Arcanine
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by Shining Arcanine »

psoTFX wrote:ah well, there you go. While query counts do not a load hog alone make ... it would appear that some "questionable" design decisions may have been made. Again I add my previous disclaimer :)
The page only has to be loaded once for queries to go down considerably. It isn't a show stopper considering considering the benefits greatly outweigh the downsides (one page load with a ton of queries and a million there after with a handful). I wouldn't call it questionable unless it didn't have caching like this hacked phpBB forum:

http://studentforums.hostultra.com/phpBB2/forum.php" target="_blank
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psoTFX
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by psoTFX »

If you need to cache as much as you note above just to reduce the query count it does suggest certain "design issues" IMHO. I'd say not showing the "true" query count perhaps indicates they too are not "over the moon" at the situation. After all, we could cache various queries in 2.0.x ... would you be congratulating us on a low query count knowing we were cheating in many cases? ;)

Having said that I'm not sure we now display the total inc cache (bar global data) in the footer :D duh. We do give a comprehensive overview (including time required to grab from cache vs. query) in the explain output ... which still sounds "better" than the other forum.

But I'll tell you what do we do cache for each page ... style information (1 query) and globally, non-dynamic config data (inc. acl options) (1 additional query plus full grab of an existing query). I guess user_permissions too ... but then we were unusual in not doing something like this in 2.0.x. I would guess that this still is significantly less than vB3 from what you've said. Previous disclaimer again noted :D

At the end of the day though you are going to support vB3 so whatever I say won't change anything ... yet another reason why we say "Go with what works best for you". You're happy and that's what is important.

PS: That forum you noted appears to be a phpBB derivative and thus has nothing to do with us. Unlike vB our licence is permissive and allows people to create such things.
Shining Arcanine
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by Shining Arcanine »

From what I understand, vBulletin also allows you to create such things as long as you have a license and aren't handing out code.
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psoTFX
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by psoTFX »

erm, that's just the point ... they are a derivative distributed freely. Believe me, vB's licence is nothing like ours ... closed source, limited use licence vs. opensource, permissive licence. You won't receive nasty emails from us asking you to remove our board because you've not paid ;) You won't find your site offline because Jelsoft "suspect" you've not updated your licence ;) So please, don't even go down this route.
Roberdin
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by Roberdin »

Shining Arcanine wrote:From what I understand they already had a read/unread marking system read to go for vBulletin 3.0.0 but they considered it to add too much additional load so they pushed it back to vBulletin 3.1.
Never seemed to stop them before...
Rob
salty78
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by salty78 »

It leaves it up to the webmaster to decide what tools or MODs should be installed. You have to do a little thinking to figure out what extra MODs would fit your needs, and you have to put in some webmaster elbow grease.
That's me exactly.

The more I learn about phpBB, the more I like it.
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Renegade88
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by Renegade88 »

Okay, I read this thread from beginning to end, so I understand and appreciate the responses to the original post, although the focus drifted with that inane "professional" discussion.

Here is the situation as I see it:
version 2.2 has been in the making for over a year, right? I, like many others I'm sure, keep checking back regularly to see if it has been released yet. I've been doing this for about 4 months. So now I have that choice about which was spoken earlier: Do I keep waiting out phpBB2.2 or switch over to Invision? Well, I personally have no idea when 2.2 is even scheduled to be released. I am sure that this is intentional, nothing like getting screamed down for busting a rather arbitrary self-imposed deadline. However, I think it is high time to add some dates to this roadmap to 2.2. Some developer with hurt feelings is probably going to tell me to "take a hike, we don't need you anyway", which is a poor attitude. However, if that is your stance, give us the information to make that decision. If the team says a realistic target is March 15, that will probably cause me to decide something different than if the team says a realistic release date is Aug 15.

If there already is a published roapmap with dates, I apologize, and humbly request the URL. If not, after a development cycle well over a year, the users deserve some sort of insight into where we stand.
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SHS`
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Re: PHPbb team : you have to catch up with the compition

Post by SHS` »

Renegade88 wrote:Do I keep waiting out phpBB2.2 or switch over to Invision?
I would consider most phpBB users to be free thinking that may have a gravitation towards OSS... but at the end of the day use whatever that most fits your current needs.

If it's phpBB, vanilla or with MODs, great... if it's some other solutions and better fits you... so be it.
Renegade88 wrote:Well, I personally have no idea when 2.2 is even scheduled to be released. I am sure that this is intentional, nothing like getting screamed down for busting a rather arbitrary self-imposed deadline.
phpBB2.2.0 will be released in 2004.
Renegade88 wrote:However, I think it is high time to add some dates to this roadmap to 2.2.
Why? If there is no final release date due to the fact things can slip, why should there be anything relating to milestones within the roadmap?

Plus if one has subscribed to the phpBB CVS checkin mailing list at SourceForge... you can see code development line by line.
Renegade88 wrote:Some developer with hurt feelings is probably going to tell me to "take a hike, we don't need you anyway", which is a poor attitude.
Always a bad thing to assume (make an ass of you and me).

Since everyone involved with phpBB is a volunteer (though some probably put more hours in per week than people who hold proper jobs...) aside from kudos gained... it matters not if it just 1 person using phpBB or 1 million.

If the code works for you, great, if it doesn't quite fit the bill, you're welcome to make whatever changes you wish as long as it's in compliance with GPL... if something else fits the bill better and you prefer using that... so be it.

Considering phpBB powers a forum which has 10x the traffic in terms of "posts per week" than the nearest communities ( http://www.big-boards.com/index.php?sort=week" target="_blank ) and greatly outpaces communities running vB or IPB, and if it's growth is continued, will become the largest Internet forum in just a short 6 month.... full stop.

So it obviously works for them...
Renegade88 wrote:However, if that is your stance, give us the information to make that decision.
See reply regarding roadmap.
Renegade88 wrote:If the team says a realistic target is March 15, that will probably cause me to decide something different than if the team says a realistic release date is Aug 15.
Such information would affect my descisions too... though the developers have this near magical abiliity in what they've done with 2.2.x so far... a March 15th would probably be rather rushed.

Plus, there's nothing stopping you taking a CVS snapshot right now, do whatever bits you need to do to get what you want, and fly with that.

There was a forum which used alpha 2.0.x code and was using it in anger a good 4 months before anyone else... and the code in CVS was in a less "finished" state than the CVS you see before you, though we have got a jump in the minor version number. ;)

I personally switched from phpBB1.4.x to the 2.0.x line some time between Beta1 and RC1 (November 2000 if memory serves)... but whilst it's quite obvious though RC1 is "production worthy" (otherwise it wouldn't deserve being called RC anything)... there were great improvements from RC1 to 2.0.0... and even from 2.0.0, there has been many bug fixes and what not to the current 2.0.6c.

The time period between these versions span some 2 or 3 years though there apBB2 which is running 2.0.4 or earlier code.

If only people had the contentment in "making do" with a minor version jump (2.0.x to 2.2.x), as opposed to a revision jump (2.0.x to 2.0.y)... ;)
Renegade88 wrote:If there already is a published roapmap with dates, I apologize, and humbly request the URL. If not, after a development cycle well over a year, the users deserve some sort of insight into where we stand.
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