PHPBB3-10620 - Quote tag improvement

These requests for comments/change have lead to an implemented feature that has been successfully merged into the 3.2/Rhea branch. Everything listed in this forum will be available in phpBB 3.2.
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JoshyPHP
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Re: PHPBB3-10620 - Quote tag improvement

Post by JoshyPHP » Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:22 pm

Pony99CA wrote:What exactly would be leaked?
You give the ID of a post and you get whatever data from the database.
Pony99CA wrote:Sorry, by "Nested" I meant existing quotes that I was quoting. I'm not referring to creating multiple levels of nested quotes myself -- those would all be "unresolved", of course.
We're talking about the same thing. If you don't accept user-supplied attributes on the outermost quote for fear of mischief, why would you accept them in the innermost quotes?
Pony99CA wrote:End user simplicity and amount of code is often a balancing act. A "Hello world" program is usually the simplest you can get, but it doesn't help the user at all (except to see that the computer can execute a program). And, of course, "user benefit" is also subjective.
And it depends on what of your definition of "is" is, too. Come on. Debating what words mean is counterproductive. I don't intend to change the way the PR works. I think it's fine as it is. If it wasn't for the date bit, I would have removed its "WIP" flag already.

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Un1matr1x
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Re: PHPBB3-10620 - Quote tag improvement

Post by Un1matr1x » Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:37 am

JoshyPHP wrote:If it wasn't for the date bit, I would have removed its "WIP" flag already.
Just remove the WIP and all is fine! :lol:

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Louis7777
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Re: PHPBB3-10620 - Quote tag improvement

Post by Louis7777 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:34 pm

If I want to have a quote with the date, links and everything, I will click on the "reply with quote" button and it will do it all for me.

But if I want to add more quotes in the same post, I'll have to add them manually and I'm not going to type any "user_id" and and "time" because that's... boring?

However, I'd take the time to copy a post's id.

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JoshyPHP
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Re: PHPBB3-10620 - Quote tag improvement

Post by JoshyPHP » Sat Jun 20, 2015 2:56 pm

You would just copy/paste the whole tag.

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Louis7777
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Re: PHPBB3-10620 - Quote tag improvement

Post by Louis7777 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:02 pm

JoshyPHP wrote:You would just copy/paste the whole tag.

Only if I am splitting a quote that comes from one specific post.

What if I want to quote different users or the same user from different posts (i.e. quote stuff from different posts)?

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JoshyPHP
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Re: PHPBB3-10620 - Quote tag improvement

Post by JoshyPHP » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:05 pm

When I quote multiple posts I usually click the Quote button to get the whole formatted quote in a tab.

If you quote the same post in multiple replies... I guess you still just copy/paste the thing. Do you ever actually type the BBCode and username and all that?

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Louis7777
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Re: PHPBB3-10620 - Quote tag improvement

Post by Louis7777 » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:11 pm

JoshyPHP wrote:When I quote multiple posts I usually click the Quote button to get the whole formatted quote in a tab.

If you quote the same post in multiple replies... I guess you still just copy/paste the thing. Do you ever actually type the BBCode and username and all that?

I sometimes do what you do, but I usually type or copy/paste the BBCode and then paste the username (or type it if it's a simple username).

Cin
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Re: PHPBB3-10620 - Quote tag improvement

Post by Cin » Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:52 pm

JoshyPHP wrote:You click the Quote button and the form is populated with the right data as in the screenshot above. You don't have to edit any of it, and if you want to create a completely different quote you don't have to specify every attribute, or any attribute for that matter.

I understand that, but I still think it will confuse people.

I have an active board with about 3500 users, it's about football and most of them are not that tech savvy. When they click on the quote button and see all these parameters it will confuse them if you have a lot of nested quotes and want to delete portions of the text. I know this because atm I still have 3.0.X running with a MOD (Quote Post Back Link) that only adds a post_id parameter (p=123456) in the quote tag, and a lot of people still make quoting errors when deleting some portions of a nested quote, because they don't understand that parameter has a function.

I do understand that querying all this data from the database is more complex, and I don't mind if you drop the profile link and date. The most interesting feature here is that you are doing something that should have been included in phpBB a long time ago: a quote should link back to the original post. I question how useful the date and profile link are. Why should I want to click on the authors' profile? What extra information would that give me? If I want, I can easily click on the original post and then on the authors' avatar. The date is not that special either; it doesn't add any substantial information to the quote. If you want to know when it was posted; click on the original post!

So I would remove the date and user profile, and just keep the link to the original post. You can remove the WIP and someone can merge it.

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Re: PHPBB3-10620 - Quote tag improvement

Post by Pony99CA » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:11 am

JoshyPHP wrote:
Pony99CA wrote:What exactly would be leaked?
You give the ID of a post and you get whatever data from the database.
Your quote change is already giving them the post ID. I'm just saying to do the necessary checks at preview/posting time, not at quoting time. In fact, I believe that you prevent leaks better if you check at posting time.

Again, if I'm missing something, please give a specific, detailed scenario where information may be leaked. (By specific and detailed, I mean a set of permissions on a forum and a set of my user actions where a post that I'm quoting could leak information that I can't already see.)
JoshyPHP wrote:
Pony99CA wrote:Sorry, by "Nested" I meant existing quotes that I was quoting. I'm not referring to creating multiple levels of nested quotes myself -- those would all be "unresolved", of course.
We're talking about the same thing. If you don't accept user-supplied attributes on the outermost quote for fear of mischief, why would you accept them in the innermost quotes?
I wasn't talking about keep those parameters; I talking about having a "pre-formatted quote" (where, for example, the timestamp was filled out in a "standard" date format), but after further consideration, that doesn't seem to help much and may make things more complicated. So just use post_id on all quotes and be done with it. ;)
JoshyPHP wrote:
Pony99CA wrote:End user simplicity and amount of code is often a balancing act. A "Hello world" program is usually the simplest you can get, but it doesn't help the user at all (except to see that the computer can execute a program). And, of course, "user benefit" is also subjective.
And it depends on what of your definition of "is" is, too. Come on. Debating what words mean is counterproductive. I don't intend to change the way the PR works. I think it's fine as it is. If it wasn't for the date bit, I would have removed its "WIP" flag already.
I wasn't debating the meaning of words; I was just pointing out that they have different meanings to different people. You may think that this is simple, but it appears that Cin and I disagree. What's simple for you may not be simple for users.

That said, getting this feature is probably more important than repeatedly debating it. If you're dead set against listening to more input on the parameters, or unwilling to change things based on that input, just release it.

I presume that the Quote button in the post review will also insert any necessary parameters, so multi-quoting will work the same as quoting a single post.

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JoshyPHP
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Re: PHPBB3-10620 - Quote tag improvement

Post by JoshyPHP » Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:42 am

Pony99CA wrote:Again, if I'm missing something, please give a specific, detailed scenario where information may be leaked.
Create a new topic and preview [quote post_id=123][/quote] as its content. If you see a date and username in the quote then you know that post #123 exists, when it's been posted and who its author is, even if you don't have access to the forum it's in.
Pony99CA wrote:I wasn't debating the meaning of words; I was just pointing out that they have different meanings to different people. You may think that this is simple, but it appears that Cin and I disagree. What's simple for you may not be simple for users.
I'm talking about code complexity, and adding attributes at quoting time is objectively simpler than doing it at posting time.

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