Updating

Discussion of general topics related to the new version and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Acyd Burn
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Re: Updating

Post by Acyd Burn »

He's fine/ok and enjoys his newly gained life. ;)

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Eelke
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Re: Updating

Post by Eelke »

An interesting point being made at least implicitly in this thread is, sure people should not be "upgrading" their live boards, but how about those that want the data from a live site as a starting point for testing/developing? I am planning to do a major rebuild of a site soon, which is currently based on phpBB2, and I am going to have to decide whether I should A) start developing based on Olympus betas and hope that by the time I'm finished, Olympus is also ready for production use, or whether I should B) go with phpBB2 initially, and do an upgrade of the site to phpBB3 in another cycle.

Anyway, for option A, it would be a huge help if I could take the data from the production site and "upgrade" that on my test site to Olympus.

Has this been taken into account in the decision to only release an upgrade path when RCs are out, implying that people should only really start basing their own developments on Olympus once RCs are out? Or hasn't it really been taken into account and does that decision reflect that RCs are deemed "kind of OK to upgrade a production site to"?
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the_dan
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Re: Updating

Post by the_dan »

Eelke wrote: Has this been taken into account in the decision to only release an upgrade path when RCs are out, implying that people should only really start basing their own developments on Olympus once RCs are out? Or hasn't it really been taken into account and does that decision reflect that RCs are deemed "kind of OK to upgrade a production site to"?
Once the project reaches RC stages, there should not be any major database changes to happen, which means that allowing users to upgrade their forums at that point is unlikey to cause significant problems.
In the beta stages, changes may be made such that it would be extremely difficult and/or time consuing to write an upgrade script due to the database schema and/or code changing majorly - This happened with beta 1 of phpBB 2.
If someone converts their board over to Olympus, and gets stuck with a beta version, with no idea as to how to convert the board to final, then they're essentially stuck. Not releaseing the convertor untill the RC stages should help to alleviate this problem.
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SHS`
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Re: Updating

Post by SHS` »

Eelke wrote: An interesting point being made at least implicitly in this thread is, sure people should not be "upgrading" their live boards, but how about those that want the data from a live site as a starting point for testing/developing? I am planning to do a major rebuild of a site soon, which is currently based on phpBB2, and I am going to have to decide whether I should A) start developing based on Olympus betas and hope that by the time I'm finished, Olympus is also ready for production use, or whether I should B) go with phpBB2 initially, and do an upgrade of the site to phpBB3 in another cycle.

Anyway, for option A, it would be a huge help if I could take the data from the production site and "upgrade" that on my test site to Olympus.

Has this been taken into account in the decision to only release an upgrade path when RCs are out, implying that people should only really start basing their own developments on Olympus once RCs are out? Or hasn't it really been taken into account and does that decision reflect that RCs are deemed "kind of OK to upgrade a production site to"?
Well, that is why there is no upgrade script of any sort mostly or partly working in CVS. ;) Having said that though, if one is competent enough with SQL & PHP, you can upgrade a board manually... indeed one of the larger phpBB's on the Internet, now running phpBB3 CVS code started out life as a phpBB1.x board. ;)

However, if you go this route... upgrading and support is completely your own problem. So at the end of the day, it's a case of how much time you have free/to waste in running and maintaining a CVS copy, which may or may not be quite "forked" from the vanilla code tree because of your own "tweaks". :P

RCs are exactly what they say they are... they should be fine for production, and in most cases of a product cycle, the very last RC is what gets released as the final product anyway (barr changes to version numbers and a bit of branding, Firefox is one well known example of this). It'll have "known issues", which will be trivial things that'll get fixed in the x.0.1 release.
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code reader
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Re: Updating

Post by code reader »

actually, in past discussions, both graham and acyd made it clear that upgrade script will not be available when beta-1 starts, but both did not rule out the posibility of the upgrade script becoming available before the first rc. it could be tied to "beta-2" or "beta-n (where n is an interger > 1)", or it could just materialize independently at any point in time after beta-1 becomes available. iirc, both made it clear that it will be available at the latest by rc1.

personally, i expressed my view that rc-1 is a way too late point in time for the upgrade script to make an appearance, because this will basically mean (imo) that the beta testing will be limited to small boards, so any issue that's related to database size will not be caught by the beta
R45
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Re: Updating

Post by R45 »

code reader wrote: personally, i expressed my view that rc-1 is a way too late point in time for the upgrade script to make an appearance, because this will basically mean (imo) that the beta testing will be limited to small boards, so any issue that's related to database size will not be caught by the beta
Betas should not be tested on Live boards, doing so would be at your own risk. Large boards can be tested (simulation of posts, users and actions with stress test scripts), and there will be no need to migrate the data as it can be regenerated.
code reader
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Re: Updating

Post by code reader »

its an old argument that has been exhausted, but let me recoup:
  1. converting != live. nothing stops you from converting an existing board data into the sandbox used for testing, while the "real" board continues to operate with existing software.
  2. you write
    (simulation of posts, users and actions with stress test scripts), and there will be no need to migrate the data as it can be regenerated.
    since no such "regeneration scripts" actually exists, and since the conversion script does exist, the easiest, most logical course of action, if/when the devs want the community to help test/stress test large boards, is to make the conversion script available.
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NNO-Stephen
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Re: Updating

Post by NNO-Stephen »

code reader wrote: its an old argument that has been exhausted, but let me recoup:
  1. converting != live. nothing stops you from converting an existing board data into the sandbox used for testing, while the "real" board continues to operate with existing software.
  2. you write
    (simulation of posts, users and actions with stress test scripts), and there will be no need to migrate the data as it can be regenerated.
    since no such "regeneration scripts" actually exists, and since the conversion script does exist, the easiest, most logical course of action, if/when the devs want the community to help test/stress test large boards, is to make the conversion script available.
no, that's a good way to ensure that they get a sh*tload of support questions asking how to upgrade their board they upgraded from 2.x to 3.0b1 and then problems that will surely arise from dolts using the beta because IT IS A BETA. their time should be devoted to actually finishing 3.0 instead of making converters for a goddamn beta. you are being selfish if you expect them to release a converter for a beta which may see substantial changes to the db schema and other integral pieces of the board before all is said and done and 3.0 is finally released.
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nEGATIVE
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Re: Updating

Post by nEGATIVE »

Don't know if this is related, but will a phpBB2 database backup restore onto Olympus?
-nEGATIVE
leh
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Re: Updating

Post by leh »

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