PHPBB3-10418 - WYSIWYG Editor/Rich Text Editor

[Master_Cylinder]

@ Master_Cylinder - Are you against the current phpBB editor? If not, I don't get your logic because a wysiwyg editor is a more user-friendly version of the phpbb editor (technical back-end aside).

Since I've said repeatedly that I prefer the current editor it'd be hard to be against it. I don't find the current editor difficult...in fact it's easier and less complicated.

I think you're overlooking the non-technical crowd in all of this discussion. Sure it's easy for you as you know what you're doing but (not being offensive) what about one of your parents or grandparents? Would they be able to figure out all of that "fangled BBCode stuff" and add color, bold, italics, quotations, etc. to text? There are many people out there that don't. Being able to do it easily and seeing the result of what you're doing would help those non-technical folk.

What have the non-technical crowd been doing so far? Using what we have. There's a big button for quotes, and most posts are plain text. Why cater to the lowest common denominator? I just don't believe that people are too dumb to learn the editor we have and if they are then they're too dumb to learn wysiwyg too...

[JoshyPHP]

I disagree and I think it's *unreasonable* to assume everyone would want a wysisyg editor since not "everyone" wants one now.

Are you purposely missing the point I made about the difference between a concept and its application? Saying that people don't want WYSIWYG is like saying that people don't want a cure for cancer. No one is opposed to it on ideological grounds, it's the practicality of it that they question. And the practicality of rich text editing is ever improving.

most forum posts are simple text

Then that makes the textarea WYSIWYG doesn't it? Apart from the background color, what I see in the textarea is what I'll get in the post bit. That's WYSIWYG. And I don't see you ask for the textarea to be made optional.

I think you're overlooking the non-technical crowd in all of this discussion.

That's especially true when you consider the form factor. Mobile browsing, phones and tablets are surpassing desktop browsing. That non-technical crowd can barely find the square brackets on their small, on-screen keyboard. And they don't have the screen real estate to comfortably preview and edit their message either.

What have the non-technical crowd been doing so far? Using what we have.

That's a bulletproof argument against any kind of progress. Why even make a new version of phpBB? I remember UBB and it worked fine. It had BBCodes, quotes, smilies and pretty much everything I'm using right now.

[Master_Cylinder]

I'm against it for phpBB. (the wysiwyg not the cure for cancer) I already told you that how some imaginary, non-existent editor might be received is beside the point. Sure, if your fantasy wysiwyg editor would wash my car, mow my lawn, cook my breakfast and do my laundry, I MIGHT be interested...but I live in the real world.

That's ridiculous. The wysiwyg concept was never about the plain text. Try again...

Cell phones just aren't good for forums and complex editing, just like their not good for graphic design. Phones are OK for reading not so much for composing. I prefer to use the right tool for the job; for most forums, phones and wysiwyg aren't the right tool.

No, I'm not against progress, I just don't see wysiwyg AS progress. I see it as unnecessary bloat and something that I don't want on MY forums at all. You took the quote out of context, it wasn't about progress it was about the claim that people NEED wysiwyg because they can't figure out what we have. Try again...

[JoshyPHP]

Oh ok. Well, let's hope that the "cell phone" fad doesn't gain any more popularity or people might stop using forums then.

[Master_Cylinder]

Let's hope that cellphone users are smart enough to use the right tool for the job...time will tell. Are there many graphic designers that only use a phone?

[Pony99CA]

There's a saying in photography circles (or so I've been told) that the "best" camera is the one that you have with you. If somebody only has a cell phone with them and wants to read a forum, should they wait until they have access to a "better" device? Should they carry a tablet or laptop with them at all times?

While not "everyone" wants or needs WYSIWYG, there's been a lot of demand for it over at phpBB.com (do a search). I wouldn't use it myself most times, but I wouldn't presume to think that I know what my users want better than they do.

As for bloat, sure, there's some, but it will only come while writing posts. As most of your time posting is probably spent actually doing the writing, there shouldn't be much performance hit.

Plus, if you're really against bloat, just stick with phpBB 3.0.x. Oh wait, you're in favor of bloat for things that you want -- like black lists (despite most people not wanting them) and group-wide post counts for link posting -- but not for what others want that you may not care for. Doesn't that seem a bit hypocritical? "I want my soup; no soup for you!"

Steve

[Master_Cylinder]

I just got through saying that phones are OK for "reading" but not as much for composing complex posts.

No doubt and there's been a lot of demand to make phpBB like facebook and other social media sites too but that doesn't make it a good idea for everyone.

*I* think more people read than write and most posts are plain text.

The "don't upgrade" canard is superfluous too, just because I'm against some bloated features doesn't mean I don't want real improvements. Anti-spam is more important than wysiwyg.

[Mess]

Anti-spam is more important than wysiwyg.

Wrong again. Anti-spam is more important for you.

Don't presume you know what is more important for me or everyone else. And drowning proposals you don't like with arguments, does not make you're own proposals more valid.

[Master_Cylinder]

Anti-spam is more important than wysiwyg.

Wrong again. Anti-spam is more important for you.

Don't presume you know what is more important for me or everyone else. And drowning proposals you don't like with arguments, does not make you're own proposals more valid.

There are far more MODs and topics about spam than wysiwyg editors.

Don't presume that wysiwyg is more important to everyone else...

[EXreaction]

Please try to stay civil about this. The development team has already made their decision to try and include a WYSIWYG editor in 3.2. We've already taken into consideration the discussions brought up here (and so we will have the option to disable it if you do not wish to use it).

Remember, if you want to affect a decision, you have to appeal to the development team, arguing with other community members really doesn't benefit anyone involved. I would say to argue against development team members, but do so respectfully please.