Global post queue functionality

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Discuss features as they are added to the new version. Give us your feedback. Don't post bug reports, feature requests, support questions or suggestions here. Feature requests are closed.
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A_Jelly_Doughnut
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Re: Global post queue functionality

Post by A_Jelly_Doughnut » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:57 am

bolverk wrote:
Kellanved wrote: Why? The permission can do the very same thing much more cleanly.
I guess our definition of "cleanly" is very different. I do not agree that forcing redundant groups on an admin simply to allow the application of one global permission is clean.
Kellanved wrote:We could have added yet another post based setting to control all these functions individually, but phpBB already has a perfectly fine mechanism for such things: permissions.
Exactly. The tools already exist today for individual board admins to address the issues you mention. They have the flexibility to enable or disable these permissions through groups and roles, what I don't understand is why you felt it necessary to deliver a pre-packaged implementation that is all or nothing, rather than delivering a tool that can be used, or not, depending on if it is necessary. To me, it almost appears as if you are designing not just features but actual admin implementations of those features geared towards new users who may not know how to use the tools to create the implementation themselves. For my boards specifically, this change boils down to the fact that I am now penalized for having no need or desire to separate my members into duplicate groups based on nothing more than post count. And yet I cannot disable this "new group" if I want to retain the existing spam net I have in place. You have to forgive me but from my POV this is not progress. What it means is I stay frozen at version 3.0.4 having to keep applying manual bug patches indefinitely.
This is progress. It does everything the post queue feature did and more.

You can keep the existing functionality (new users can be placed on the queue). You can also prohibit them from any other permission setting - for example, using smilies or avatars (even though you have them disabled, this has utility for other users).

You say you have no need to treat your new users differently, but then you turn around and say you already do by using the post queuing feature in the first place. I really don't understand your complaint at all.
A_Jelly_Doughnut

bolverk
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Re: Global post queue functionality

Post by bolverk » Wed Jul 29, 2009 2:42 am

A_Jelly_Doughnut wrote:You say you have no need to treat your new users differently, but then you turn around and say you already do by using the post queuing feature in the first place.
Not quite. I said I have no need to treat them differently by putting them in a separate group.
It applies to everybody, the fact that the criteria used is post count does not create a defacto group within a group, it is merely a subset of the group and can exist as a subset within the larger group without having to literally separate them into their own member group. ;)
Let me repeat for the umpteenth time, I do not want to have to use any other user group to assign permissions for my regular users than the existing "Registered Users" group.
A_Jelly_Doughnut wrote:I really don't understand your complaint at all.
On the contrary, I think you understand it perfectly. I believe you just choose to not accept it because it does not happen to align with your opinion.
A_Jelly_Doughnut wrote:You can also prohibit them from any other permission setting - for example, using smilies or avatars (even though you have them disabled, this has utility for other users).
Again exactly my point, see you understand just fine. You even state while this has no use for me it could be of use to others. I agree 100%, have never said otherwise. However,
A_Jelly_Doughnut wrote:You can keep the existing functionality (new users can be placed on the queue)
this is not correct. Functionality in software design (professional at least) is the specific implementation of a feature. Layman often use the two terms (features & function) interchangeably but in fact they are distinctly separate for good reason. From 3.0.3 -> 3.0.5 the functionality is that I can toggle the post queue count setting and it encompasses all members, regardless of group membership. In whatever version the current SVN becomes, the functionality has been changed but the feature still exists. I can no longer toggle the post queue count for all members regardless of group membership, I can only apply it to the system group "Newly registered users" and no other. That is a significant functional change that forces me as an admin to give up the post queue count feature unless I accept the pre-packaged group implementation you think I should use. Stripped to its core what this re-design says to board admins is this, "You must use this group to get this feature, if you do not use this group you do not get to use this feature." I want to retain the feature but I do not want the group. There is no solution to that for me other than not to upgrade. Again fine with me.

ToonArmy
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Re: Global post queue functionality

Post by ToonArmy » Wed Jul 29, 2009 12:31 pm

bolverk wrote:Let me repeat for the umpteenth time, I do not want to have to use any other user group to assign permissions for my regular users than the existing "Registered Users" group.
The reason being? I can see the problem, the post queue was very simple from the administrators point of view. However from a code point of view it was a crude hack. Why not reuse an existing system that can do exactly what we want with minimal effort.

With regards to the support team suggest not using 'never' permissions, they are designed to be used in cases like this. I have some groups on my board that I drop problematic users into groups which restricts what then can do from the norm using never permissions.
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bolverk
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Re: Global post queue functionality

Post by bolverk » Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:12 pm

ToonArmy wrote:The reason being?
Occam's razor.
ToonArmy wrote:I can see the problem, the post queue was very simple from the administrators point of view.
You win the door prize. ;)

ToonArmy
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Re: Global post queue functionality

Post by ToonArmy » Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:22 pm

bolverk wrote:
ToonArmy wrote:The reason being?
Occam's razor.
ToonArmy wrote:I can see the problem, the post queue was very simple from the administrators point of view.
You win the door prize. ;)
Oh so we remove the newly registered group, add back posts on post queue, add minimum posts to PM, add minimum posts to use signature, add minimum posts to post bbcodes, add minimum posts to set an avatar. Very simple.
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