Tell me, are these bugs or known issues?...

[Fountain of Apples]

Looking good on Safari 2 and Firefox 2 (OSX), works without problems. I really like the new system much more than phpBB2's methods. It's nice to already have the cursor at the right place and to not have to get confused with starting/stopping the tag. Nice job.

[Highway of Life]

(we need an emoticon with thumb up...)

Hehe

Wow! lots of Mac users here. 8)

[Nicholas the Italian]

Well well, so while I'm preparing my considerations on beta3 you just come and release beta4? Good...
Anyway, these are a number of issues I spotted. Notice that what I express here are mostly my opinions (except a couple of them that might actually be minor bugs): you may like them, dislike them, or just don't give a thing about 'em; but I just wanted to give some ideas, and would like to read your (users' and devs') opinions about this (what do you think could be useful? what is feasible?).

1. Let's start from the things that can actually be considered as bugs (they might as well have been already fixed, that's why I don't report them yet):
2. I'll add a link here, like http://www.phpbb.com, and you'll see it's broken (final punctation should not be parsed, unless it is an equal = or something like that);
3. this already reported: composing the signature a huge colors table is shown on the left; when rolling over and out, the tip line reads "undefined";
4. if I hit the submit button twice, guess what? the message is added twice; it'd be a problem for my mother, who double-clicks everything ; seriously, if the server is slow and the confirm page takes a while to load, we may have a bunch of duplicate posts; the submit button should be disabled when pressed (but at this point we must be sure the message is on its way, otherwise we might lose everything);
5. shortcuts do not work on selected text with IE6 (just adds the tags after);
6. when adding a tag with IE, sometimes the cursor is placed x characters from the beginning of the message, instead of from the insertion point; by "sometimes" I mean that I could reproduce it several times, but did not find any logic in it: just seems to happen randomly (more often with color tags - just insert many tags until something goes wrong); probably another browser issue (I thought they were joking when they said that Microsoft uses to put "random bugs" into its products );
7. the attachment field in posting page shows a hand cursor during mouseover with IE;
8. the big link with the topic title at the top of this page leads to this same page; should either redirect to page 1 or be not a link at all;
9. clicking field descriptions (in ACP or UCP or elsewhere) seems to restore the default value (but for example sets UTC -12 in "my timezone");
10. in user management (ACP) I select Permissions > * roles > Role description, and it reads "ROLE_DESCRIPTION_*_*";

1. Now, here are my suggestions and thoughts (in mixed order):
2. can queries be counted and added to ACP statistics? many hosts limit the number of queries per hour or per day, so it would be a very very useful number; also, I happened three times today to reach the 2000 queries/hour limit while testing phpBB3; is this version more "hungry" than phpBB2? when it shows "18 queries" at the bottom of the page, does it mean that 18 queries where used to load that single page? because this seems quite a lot to me... I don't know how things work, but database transactions should be used only when really useful, otherwise text files could be used (i.e. for logs, etc.);
3. everytime I hit my browser's "back" button it says the page has expired; not a big problem, but didn't happen in phpBB2;
4. isn't the search box usually located at the top of the page, not at the bottom?;
5. if you search for author and no keyword is typed, it should be treated as *, or no message will ever be found (if I don't err);
6. after registration it would be good if the user was automatically logged in (if no activation needed), and possibly redirected to his UCP so he can set everything up (otherwise the previous page);
7. for some pages which are accessible from different points, when clicking "return to..." it doesn't go to the previous page but to its default "parent" page (hope I've let you understand), so one gets lost (and can't use the back button because the page has expired...);
8. voting should be permitted also to guests, unless the admin decides otherwise (it's his business if a guest can vote 1000 times);
9. posting errors (like empty subject/message) should be caught and reported by JS before sending data; also, errors should be more evident, i.e. with a larger font;
10. I see you can limit the no. of lines and images sizes for signatures, but can you limit the no. of images?;
11. I'd add to date formats the classic and short "DD/MM/YYYY"; and BTW, what are "relative days"?;
12. emoticons should allow multiple codifications (like 8( and 8-( ) to be specified together in the ACP, and be case unsensitive (if they're not now);
13. if BBCode is disabled or img/flash buttons are disabled, buttons should not be shown (already implemented? I don't know);
14. even when BBCode is disabled, it'd be better if quote tags were parsed, since they're automatically added when quoting a message; otherwise the result is somewhat messy;
15. personally I just don't want my users to ever be able to write something like THIS in their posts; I'd change the font-size-scale from 7-9-12-18-24 to 8-10-12-14-16 (and then one can set 16 as the maximum size);
16. I'd group the most important 10-15 colors and 5 grays or order them in another manner, because it's just difficult to find a red or a gray among those 125 colors;
17. list and * button tips should be more descriptive i.e. "{list}header{*}one{*}two{*}three{/list}", to show they're meant to go together;
18. I still have to understand what's the problem with asking the parameters of parametric tags (quote, img, url, etc.) via JS prompt: difficult to do? just "ugly"? better the traditional way?;
19. is the "subject" field really useful (except when creating a new topic)?...;
20. "signature can be altered via the UCP"... what's that... just write "User Control Panel", and make it a link;
21. instead of making "BBCode is ON" a link, I'd write "BBCode is ON (how does it work?)" or something like that, to clarify that's a link to a tutorial;
22. links in posting page should open in another tab/window, otherwise the user might lose his data;
23. in the MCP, "reason for ban" fields should be longer;
24. shouldn't friends' and foes' names by highlighted in some particular manner?;
25. I'd add some other emoticons and topic icons; I mean, I know you won't include beauties like these , but there are basic emotions that really need to be covered, like ;
26. and finally: I still have to understand why lists have to be indented... (gasp, I understood it now when switching to the numbered list...)

End of! I can understand you if you didn't read the whole thing!
Have a nice week.

(BTW, IE6 begins to crawl when inserting tags in such long messages, but still manages to do it.)

[knickers]

That was just way too much reading!
Anyone else completely skip that last post?

[warmweer]

Anyone else completely skip that last post?

What post?

[Nicholas the Italian]

Relax, it wasn't aimed at you, so you can go back and read Mickey Mouse.

[Highway of Life]

hehe...
Do you need help reporting those?

[*]if I hit the submit button twice, guess what? the message is added twice; it'd be a problem for my mother, who double-clicks everything ; seriously, if the server is slow and the confirm page takes a while to load, we may have a bunch of duplicate posts; the submit button should be disabled when pressed (but at this point we must be sure the message is on its way, otherwise we might lose everything);

Doesn't the flood limit prevent this... it should, at least prevent this. Have you tried turning the flood limit on in a local install, and checking a Regular User (Admins can ignore flood limit).

[*]shortcuts do not work on selected text with IE6 (just adds the tags after);

I think Safari does this as well.

[*]when adding a tag with IE, sometimes the cursor is placed x characters from the beginning of the message, instead of from the insertion point; by "sometimes" I mean that I could reproduce it several times, but did not find any logic in it: just seems to happen randomly (more often with color tags - just insert many tags until something goes wrong); probably another browser issue (I thought they were joking when they said that Microsoft uses to put "random bugs" into its products );

Random "features"
They invent new "features" every release!!
Yes, I noticed this as well, and I do believe it has been reported. But I'm not 100% sure.

[*]the attachment field in posting page shows a hand cursor during mouseover with IE;

Didn't check with IE, but isn't it "supposed" to be a Hand?

[*]in user management (ACP) I select Permissions > * roles > Role description, and it reads "ROLE_DESCRIPTION_*_*";

Do you mean you went: Users permissions > [look up user] > Role* >> Description reads... [/snip]
or...
Manage users > [look up user] > Permissions > ??
If either of those two, I could not find a "ROLE_DESCRIPTION_..." in either of them.

1. Now, here are my suggestions and thoughts (in mixed order):
2. can queries be counted and added to ACP statistics?
   [/quote]Yes, it could, I imagine, however, that it would add a few extra queries in the process.

   many hosts limit the number of queries per hour or per day, so it would be a very very useful number; also, I happened three times today to reach the 2000 queries/hour limit while testing phpBB3; is this version more "hungry" than phpBB2?

   Yes, it is... reason: More features!!

   when it shows "18 queries" at the bottom of the page, does it mean that 18 queries where used to load that single page?

   Yes, all for that page. BUT! many of those queries are run from the Cache, so they don't add more database load to the server.

   because this seems quite a lot to me... I don't know how things work, but database transactions should be used only when really useful, otherwise text files could be used (i.e. for logs, etc.);

   There is quite a bit more to it than that... for example, click on the "Explain" to see details of what the query is pulling and what it's being used for. I think you'll be surprised.

   [*]everytime I hit my browser's "back" button it says the page has expired; not a big problem, but didn't happen in phpBB2;

   ?!?!!! That's odd... I've never seen that happen in phpBB3... though it could be some setting with your host that is causing that.

   [*]isn't the search box usually located at the top of the page, not at the bottom?;

   It's normally located at the Bottom except for special circumstances, such as searching search results.

   [*]if you search for author and no keyword is typed, it should be treated as *, or no message will ever be found (if I don't err);

   If you search for an Author, and don't enter a keyword, it will show you all posts posted by that Author.

   [*]for some pages which are accessible from different points, when clicking "return to..." it doesn't go to the previous page but to its default "parent" page (hope I've let you understand), so one gets lost (and can't use the back button because the page has expired...);

   In what case? they don't ALWAYS go to the "parent" page.

   [*]voting should be permitted also to guests, unless the admin decides otherwise (it's his business if a guest can vote 1000 times);

   Already an option by permissions.

   [*]posting errors (like empty subject/message) should be caught and reported by JS before sending data; also, errors should be more evident, i.e. with a larger font;

   No feature requests. Good idea, though.
3. I see you can limit the no. of lines and images sizes for signatures, but can you limit the no. of images?;
   [/quote]Yes.

   [*]I'd add to date formats the classic and short "DD/MM/YYYY"; and BTW, what are "relative days"?;

   Relative days are 1 for January (for example) instead of "01", same with days and months.

   [*]emoticons should allow multiple codifications (like 8( and 8-( ) to be specified together in the ACP, and be case unsensitive (if they're not now);

   This is not very efficient... but possible if the Admin wants to give users that option by adding more smiley codes, it would still be limited to whatever the Admin puts in there, but it's the only reliable option... I'm sure a Dev can tell you exactly why it's a bad idea to do that for smilies, so I won't waist air... er... or screen space.

   [*]even when BBCode is disabled, it'd be better if quote tags were parsed, since they're automatically added when quoting a message; otherwise the result is somewhat messy;

   No, because Disabling BBCode is exactly that... disabling BBCode... we don't "Assume" what a user wants.

   [*]personally I just don't want my users to ever be able to write something like THIS in their posts; I'd change the font-size-scale from 7-9-12-18-24 to 8-10-12-14-16 (and then one can set 16 as the maximum size);

   Maximum Font size can be set in the ACP controls... as to it disabling or scaling the font size based on the menu bbcode option... well...

   [*]is the "subject" field really useful (except when creating a new topic)?...;

   YES!!! I must say, not with subSilver, but many styles implement this as a h3, h4, or some such thing, and it is used more "openly" in other styles.

   [*]instead of making "BBCode is ON" a link, I'd write "BBCode is ON (how does it work?)" or something like that, to clarify that's a link to a tutorial;

   Naturally, if someone was like... huh? they might try clicking there. Else you end up cluttering the whole thing.

   [*]links in posting page should open in another tab/window, otherwise the user might lose his data;

   This is a standard no-no... don't open up new windows in the same site... it annoys the heck out of people. And sometimes, I'll be posting something, change my mind and follow a link elsewhere. Again, we can't assume what a user wants to do.

   [*]shouldn't friends' and foes' names by highlighted in some particular manner?;

   I believe they are, yes.

   [*]I'd add some other emoticons and topic icons; I mean, I know you won't include beauties like [/snip]

   The great thing about phpBB is... you get to ADD this yourself!!!
   

   End of! I can understand you if you didn't read the whole thing!

   I did... just for you.
   

   (BTW, IE6 begins to crawl when inserting tags in such long messages, but still manages to do it.)

   Good for it... maybe people will begin switching to a better browser.

[Nicholas the Italian]

hehe...
Do you need help reporting those?

No, doin it...

Doesn't the flood limit prevent this... it should, at least prevent this.

Mm, did not try as normal user, but flood limit could be set to 0 or disabled or the transition page might take several seconds to load...

Random "features" They invent new "features" every release!!

Ya, I beg your pardon.
It's not a bug, it's a feature.
So I just reported a couple of features to the feature tracker.
But please do not ask for new bugs at this stage.

Didn't check with IE, but isn't it "supposed" to be a Hand?

On a text field should be a vertical cursor imo; in Firefox it is.

Do you mean...

Neither.
ACP > Permissions > Permission roles (anyone) > Edit one of the items > Role description field.

Yes, it could, I imagine, however, that it would add a few extra queries in the process.

A query to increment the query number...
Can't this number be stored in some other way, i.e. a file in the cache directory, or so. It's not a tragedy if it goes lost, but it'd be very useful for the ones who have a limited n. of queries.
And then adding to the ACP main page fields like "queries this hour", "last hour", "today", "yesterday", or so.

Yes, it is... reason: More features!!

Of course...
But has anyone ever studied the exact impact of this? I mean, if with phpBB2 I can manage an average of x pageviews with 1000 queries, how many pageviews can I manage with phpBB3? That's interesting.

BUT! many of those queries are run from the Cache, so they don't add more database load to the server.

Mmm, interesting, so the first pages are heavier. Any idea of which percentage of queries comes from cache, as an average?...

There is quite a bit more to it than that...

I'm totally aware of it, I also don't think they can change too much after beta4, I just want them to be aware that they should be minimizing the n. of actual queries whenever possible.
Also the option to turn off advanced resource-demanding features could be good.

?!?!!! That's odd... I've never seen that happen in phpBB3... though it could be some setting with your host that is causing that.

The host is the same, the browser is the same (IE), yet with phpBB3 I have to reload the page and resend the informations almost every time I go back; which never happened with phpBB2. But I'll have to check it again (I can't until Saturday...).

It's normally located at the Bottom except for special circumstances, such as searching search results.

I mean, generally sites put the search box at the top. It's more visible that way, that's all.

If you search for an Author, and don't enter a keyword, it will show you all posts posted by that Author.

Yep, true. Either this is another IE6 feature, or just typed the name with wrong cases. BTW, names should be case unsensitive (since they are, at the act of subscription).

In what case? they don't ALWAYS go to the "parent" page.

Got to check, but several cases.

Already an option by permissions.

Didn't try, it wasn't possible in phpBB2 and in phpBB3 FAQ is still said to be still not permitted. Is the FAQ wrong?

Good idea, though.

One out of twenty-five, well, better than nothing...

Yes.

Where? In signature settings I read max sign length, max sign links, max sign font size, max smilies, max image width-length... but no max images per signature. (The same applies to post settings).

This is not very efficient...

Ok, and what about the case unsensitiveness? Are they already?

No, because Disabling BBCode is exactly that... disabling BBCode... we don't "Assume" what a user wants.

If a user clicks on "quote", we're sure he wants to quote that message... and not by simply adding odd and meaningless {quote} signs somewhere, but highlighting the quoted text.
Unless having BBCode off means that that link does not add the tags automatically. But how to separate quoted text from new text in this case...

Maximum Font size can be set in the ACP controls...

I know (though now I'm not able to find it... it's under signature settings but not under post settings... aargh), but I find more human and logical to have a scaling like this

Title
Subtitle
Here's what I wanna say
Here's the notes
Here's... what? dunno

instead of this

Title
Subtitle
Here's what I wanna say
Here's the notes
Here's... what? dunno

So if one wants to write something really big (within the limits imposed by admins), he has at least to find the way... Writing in 24 should be discouraged by default, imo.

YES!!! I must say, not with subSilver, but many styles implement this as a h3, h4, or some such thing, and it is used more "openly" in other styles.

Ok, then I'll just keep it from showing...

This is a standard no-no... don't open up new windows in the same site...

At least BBCode explanation should open in a pop-up. IMO.

Again, we can't assume what a user wants to do.

Simply because users generally don't know what they want to do...

The great thing about phpBB is... you get to ADD this yourself!!!

I know! But basic icons are provided by default, and I think that some basic icons are missing. I didn't really want to import new packages for phpBB2, but I had to because they were just not complete.

I did... just for you.

So someone loves me... thanks!

Good for it... maybe people will begin switching to a better browser.

I actually though they could whitewash the whole IE-issues-problem by just killing all IE users. But if this has to be done for phpBB3, I fear what they will do for phpBB4...

Regards.

[Nicholas the Italian]

Cough.
Erg, I just wanted to know if someone else read the last messages and thought about them.
I'd especially like some feedback about the queries issue (point 1 - how heavier is phpBB3 than phpBB2? is it possible to count total actual queries in the last hour/day in the ACP?), posting errors to be caught before actually sending data (point 8 ) and prompt-for-parameters (point 17).
I also reported bugs 1, 4, 5, 6. I'll do some other testing with beta4 this week-end.

I just add another couple of things.

• About smart buttons. If the selected text starts with {x} and ends with {/x}, and the x button/shortcut is selected, the two tags should be stripped. This is the most basic thing that it should be able to do (otherwise you're always forced to remove tags manually). Notice that with IE after selecting and tagging, the text with the new tags is still selected; so you can just toggle between let's say bold and normal by pressing several times the b button. Then you can make the behavior as sophisticated as you can imagine: what if before the opening or after the closing tag there is a whitespace, or it is selected the text between tags (but no tags), or one tag is selected and the other isn't, or they are partially selected, etc.; also, if you have a bold text, and you select a part of it and click the b button, this should add {/b}{b} tags instead of {b}{/b} (that is, make the selected text non-bold)... but what if the selection goes across other and/or different tags... Probably this was what dhn meant when he said "too many presumptions"; yes, it may turn out to be very complex, but we can just start from basics, any sophistication can be added later (it's just a JS), if deemed useful.
• With non-IE browsers, after formatting, the cursor is moved after the formatted text, which may be acceptable (also prevents overwriting the text), but, as code reader would say , this represents an inconsistency with normal text editors where the selected text is still selected after formatting; also and more importantly I might want to make a text bold and red and italic, so now I'd have to reselect the same text three times. So I propose to keep the selected text selected even after formatting it, if possible. (Of course this would fit well with smart buttons.)
• About syntax check. I quite give up the idea; I mean, it is not a good idea to report such errors to users (not everybody likes to hurt himself like programmers do ). It is also difficult to automatically fix a user's mistakes, since we'd have to know what he wanted to do. Still if wrong BBCode can result in malformed XHTML it would be good if errors were removed before sending data, i.e. phisically removing from the message closing tags with no open tags before, and viceversa, while unknown tags should just be left there and shown as they are (=not translated in HTML).
• Have you considered adding some "feedback / report bugs" module in the ACP, so that admins could directly report any trouble and suggestion? Of course you might end up with tons of (mostly useless) reports and stuff. You might also include it as experimental, with the possibility to deactivate it; or offer it as a MOD, who knows. I don't know if it's worth doing it, just an idea.