[Olympus] Has it failed already?

[SamG]

I take offense at your ad homs. You strut around here trying to take the high moral ground yet you have no sense of fairness about what people are trying to communicate. "Don't even attempt that with me." This is a fantasy you've created, that a few of us set the tone, rather than that we learned it here and at the main site over time.

I have had enough of this. You are indeed acting like a troll, and I see no benefit in carrying on. You go right ahead and be the playground monitor to your heart's content, but you'll be doing it by yourself. If you ever decide to be reasonable, PM me.

[dhn]

Are you seriously suggesting that a few of us made up this design philosophy and have somehow managed to restrain a few generations of phpBB developers to it?

C'mon. Let's be reasonable.

Dont even attempt that with me. It's the same VERY OUTSPOAKEN few who keep up with the same thing and wanting to keep phpbb is the dark ages. The difference is you all like to play gang up to make it seem like the majority has spoaken. That doesnt work with me. Something i hope you take notice of as well. As i will be here as a reminder everytime the same few of you try this stunt. Infact i plan on linking it all to prove my point about who is the majority and who isnt.

"Dont [sic] even attempt that with me. It's the same VERY OUTSPOAKEN [sic] few who keep up with the trends and wanting to have phpbb repeat its development cycle every time a cool idea pops up. The difference is you all like to play gang up to make it seem like the majority has spoaken [sic]. That doesnt work with me. Something i hope you take notice of as well. As i will be here as a reminder everytime the same few of you try this stunt. Infact i plan on linking it all to prove my point about who is the majority and who isnt [sic]."

Woah, debating like this is so easy! Only needed to adjust a few words.

[ronoxQ]

I know I'm from the proverbial devil's camp, but I support freeware, and I'm giving the view from the other side. Sorry if I bug you guys! ^_^

Well, freeware and vB.

I'm sorry, was I unclear? I support GOOD programs first, followed by freeware. I currently use Drupal, for example, for my CMS, since it's a freeware program that is EASILY better than the paid programs. And it is newer and smaller than phpBB, too... if only phpBB could be like my Drupal...

And then we let everyone and their dogs who have donated demand features. Not going to happen. It's bad enough that everyone is demaning of us already, even without donations.

I honestly hope you don't believe this. Donations are part of FREE WILL. I donate to my favorite programs because I want to SUPPORT them, not demand features. And you lose nothing by ignoring people who DO demand.

Common sense has triumphed again.

...No. I just went offline. Because I had things to do that were for some reason more important than arguing all day with stubborn BBers.

Please make note: the web is NOT my life. I do all sorts of other things. So when I don't immediately respond, you haven't won. Wait around for a bit, will you.

I think that people here who are showing a negative attitude towards Olympus are showing their ignorance in that they cannot see a package that is designed to be modular, designed to be customisable. There is a very good reason a lot of features are not included, its because the developers know that there will be simple modifications made for them if there is real demand.

Now, normally I'd agree. Drupal follows this "minimal" approach quite well, and uses modules. HOWEVER: phpBB is NOT a modular program by my books. With Drupal, if I want something, I uploiad a file, click install. BAM! Done. Modular means I don't have to edit code, I don't have to set anything up. Drupal lets me pick what I want, then put it on in no time. phpBB makes me spend hours getting every single small mod I want on it - and THERE'S a difference, too: Drupal has all the small stuff there as options already, so I don't NEED small modules. I hope you catch my drift.

I think you shouldnt be focussing in on whats not included, but focussing in on the massive advances between the two versions. I want you to think about each feature on the list and decide whether or not 70% or more of the users will actually use it. Personally I can only see 1 feature that wont, the advanced UserCP controls. (PM Sorting, Friends/foes). But then again I have never owned/moderated a large board, thus I can forgive this as I can see its a valid introduction Razz..

Here's another thing about me: I'm not satisfied to look at improvements on one software. I look at 'em all. That's precisely what phpBB isn't doing right now, and I'm saying now that it's a weakness.

Are you seriously suggesting that a few of us made up this design philosophy and have somehow managed to restrain a few generations of phpBB developers to it?

C'mon. Let's be reasonable.

Yes, it IS you that's holding it back. Most people get phpBB because they think it's a good, easy program to use. They don't care until it's too late that you guys are holding phpBB a year and a half behind other forum software.

Dont even attempt that with me. It's the same VERY OUTSPOAKEN few who keep up with the same thing and wanting to keep phpbb is the dark ages. The difference is you all like to play gang up to make it seem like the majority has spoaken. That doesnt work with me. Something i hope you take notice of as well. As i will be here as a reminder everytime the same few of you try this stunt. Infact i plan on linking it all to prove my point about who is the majority and who isnt.

Thanks. You just saved me a few minutes, since I don't have to write up the obvious comeback that you've provided. I owe you, mate.

Oh, and another thing I love: you all think that spelling makes a good person. It doesn't. If it did, phpBB would already have a spell-checker, since they "don't want so many useless thoughtless posts" going around. Argument against quickreply, no? (So much for your QR censor there, huh?)

Here's something I noticed between vBulletin and phpBB: a HUGE difference. On vBulletin, there was a huge argument over the direction vB was headed. People flamed, they released illegal hacks of vB all over the place. However, there the mods actually CONTAINED the problem. They didn't censor things they didn't like, they met with the *beep*-off people and decided how they could FIX the problem. They got back some of the best hackers for vB and some of the senior, non-coding members (some of whom couldn't spell, because they were FOREIGN. Remember? Not everybody is an English native like us SPECIAL one.), and now the forum is peaceful again. Would that happen here? No. Because you've decided that the phpBB fanboys are all that matter. And here's the thing: they don't. Not as much as the majority.

I'm saying this all because I happen to like giving out warnings. You guys are getting beaten back by SMF, for crying out loud! You won't be the biggest forum out there for very long! And why? Because other forums ARE advancing their technology, not just upgrading-without-upgrading like is the case with Olympus, which will finally make phpBB competitive with vBulletin 2.0, the one that was just discontinued by Jelsoft because it was too low-tech. Take heed of my warning, for I am no inexperienced fool: I know EXACTLY what will happen to you guys.

At first, I thought Olympus was just misguided. Now I see I was wrong. You guys won't recover. You guys don't even think you're sick yet. This has failed.

[SamG]

Yes, it IS you that's holding it back. Most people get phpBB because they think it's a good, easy program to use. They don't care until it's too late that you guys are holding phpBB a year and a half behind other forum software.

If I really had that kind of influence, I'd feel bad. But I don't, so I don't.

If you can find any place anywhere that I actually convinced the developers (or any other team member, for that matter) how phpBB as a project ought to be run, then you can put that kind of responsibility on my shoulders. Otherwise, I think you're just trying to make a point at my expense, which isn't productive. If you disagree with phpBB development philosophy, that's fine. But I didn't establish that philosophy, and there's nothing to be accomplished by pretending I did.

[ronoxQ]

So... now you're arguing that just because they don't listen doesn't mean you should act like your way is best. This from the person who attacks people based on saying what THEY think is best. Paradox, anybody?

[SamG]

I never said they don't listen, and I never said what I think best. I said what is. You argued that I'm personally holding phpBB back, and I'm simply saying that that's a pretty hard argument to sustain.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Now, normally I'd agree. Drupal follows this "minimal" approach quite well, and uses modules. HOWEVER: phpBB is NOT a modular program by my books. With Drupal, if I want something, I uploiad a file, click install. BAM! Done. Modular means I don't have to edit code, I don't have to set anything up. Drupal lets me pick what I want, then put it on in no time. phpBB makes me spend hours getting every single small mod I want on it - and THERE'S a difference, too: Drupal has all the small stuff there as options already, so I don't NEED small modules. I hope you catch my drift.

phpBB3 has a modular ACP, MCP and UCP. phpBB also has EasyMod, not officially, but it works. And you're exaggerating the difficulty of installing mods.

Yes, it IS you that's holding it back. Most people get phpBB because they think it's a good, easy program to use. They don't care until it's too late that you guys are holding phpBB a year and a half behind other forum software.

Look carefully at phpBB3. There are some features in it even vB doesn't have, like the level of permissions control. I've installed the CVS and it's just as good as I'd need for a fair-to-medium-sized forum.

Oh, and another thing I love: you all think that spelling makes a good person. It doesn't. If it did, phpBB would already have a spell-checker, since they "don't want so many useless thoughtless posts" going around. Argument against quickreply, no? (So much for your QR censor there, huh?)

Sorry. You lose. You're strawmanning. The reason there is no spellchecker in phpBB is because it is impractical and takes too much server processing time. Go get your own spellchecker.

Here's something I noticed between vBulletin and phpBB: a HUGE difference. On vBulletin, there was a huge argument over the direction vB was headed. People flamed, they released illegal hacks of vB all over the place. However, there the mods actually CONTAINED the problem. They didn't censor things they didn't like, they met with the *beep*-off people and decided how they could FIX the problem. They got back some of the best hackers for vB and some of the senior, non-coding members (some of whom couldn't spell, because they were FOREIGN. Remember? Not everybody is an English native like us SPECIAL one.), and now the forum is peaceful again. Would that happen here? No. Because you've decided that the phpBB fanboys are all that matter. And here's the thing: they don't. Not as much as the majority.

I believe phpBB Group has tried that strategy for a long time, and the number of impatient people like you made them reconsider.

I'm saying this all because I happen to like giving out warnings. You guys are getting beaten back by SMF, for crying out loud! You won't be the biggest forum out there for very long! And why? Because other forums ARE advancing their technology, not just upgrading-without-upgrading like is the case with Olympus, which will finally make phpBB competitive with vBulletin 2.0, the one that was just discontinued by Jelsoft because it was too low-tech. Take heed of my warning, for I am no inexperienced fool: I know EXACTLY what will happen to you guys.

Actually, vB 2.0 had quite a few less features. phpBB3 has nearly every feature I'd want in a bulletin board, and phpBB2 was good for a lot of people too. The reason phpBB has been so much of a success is that it is well-tested and it's been around the block.

Of course, you don't see many very large forums using stock phpBB, and that's because phpBB2 isn't all that good at large forums. But the vast majority of web forums are small communities set up for cheap (I did one myself) by people who don't want to pay for vBulletin or IPB, or don't need the features of any other forum solution.

Go ahead and go to the UseBB forums and flame them for being behind.

At first, I thought Olympus was just misguided. Now I see I was wrong. You guys won't recover. You guys don't even think you're sick yet. This has failed.

I remember a person called FronServo who said similar things, and he hasn't come back yet.

Let's clear one thing up. phpBB 1 was made by a guy who wanted a basic forum for his personal website. Not for a 20,000 member behemoth community with hundreds of posts per day, which is what vBulletin is aimed for right now. phpBB Olympus is aiming to close the gap some, and it has the major features that board administrators want. Sure, it doesn't have as many as vBulletin, but not many people need that many features.

Get over it.

[Highway of Life]

Gosh guys... let it cool for a bit! will you!

We are all working toward the same thing.. yes?
phpBB beta release.

Lets look at a few things:

• 1. quickreply already exists/will exist as a mod.
     Not being there does not mean that phpBB is not up to snuff.
  2. Permission control is increadible, and the ability to create roles so extreeme, that it can easily handle a board the size of vB forums or bigger.
  3. The Beta/Gold release 3.0 will be a great basic forum for any user. One of the best out there, and THE best opensource forum that exists. I think we all know and agree on this point.
  4. The Feature requests list will open again... I'm assuming for 3.2
  5. 3.2 will have even more features than you can shake a stick at for you feature activists.
  6. If any of you have ever been involved in long-term intense application programming, you know how long it takes to create a program as intense as Olympus.
     • 1. You also know that it takes longer if you are doing it in your free time.
       2. You also know that it takes a long time if you are not getting paid for your open source work.
          • 1. Though I hope they get some kind of reambursment from the adds, which I think a Dev mentioned before
  7. Arguing about it is not going to get the Beta released any faster. Nor is it going to grow the features that you want/need.
  8. Relax...
     
     Lets just enjoy this beta release, and when the feature list opens again, submit your feature requests for 3.2, alright?

[Martin Blank]

It's the same VERY OUTSPOAKEN few who keep up with the same thing and wanting to keep phpbb is the dark ages.

I've been to more phpBB forums without QR than I have with QR, among other "popular" mods. While I do use it, too, I don't want it in the phpBB core. It's Yet Another Feature, and there are probably a half-dozen good mods out there for it, so I don't stress, since I know it will be around if I choose to implement it -- which I haven't decided on yet.

Really, I don't see why so many have to get so stressed about this. I've been holding off adding features to my board precisely because Olympus has been on the schedule, and it's become a running joke amongst my community. If I felt that much pressure to make the move, I would go and load something else. I have considered it from time to time, but I'd rather stay with what I have for now, and wait for Olympus. The same decision may not be perfect for everyone. That doesn't mean that you have to fan the flames -- yet again -- here.

[Drexion]

When 3.0 is released, if only one person downloads it, installs it and runs it, and is happy with it then phpBB3.0 is a success imo.

Thankfully unlike other bbs teams, phpBB does not have to base its success on number of users, number of subscribers, total income or profit generated. This is the beauty of Open Source projects such as this, in which you do not end up with a product whose feature set driven by "oh put this, this and this in it and I'll buy it!" kind of nonsense.

I absolutely love the way the code flows, its easy for even a novice at php to pick up, read and understand, and then edit at will. This is probably the thing I love most about phpBB over other bbs systems, the code just makes sense, and everything clicks.

phpBB2 rocks, and so will phpBB3. Just wait and see