Justifying the name PHPBB3!

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Discuss features as they are added to the new version. Give us your feedback. Don't post bug reports, feature requests, support questions or suggestions here. Feature requests are closed.
BioALIEN
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Justifying the name PHPBB3!

Post by BioALIEN »

Hello all,

I've been a loyal user of phpBB since its early days back in v0.x
I've watched it grow and compete and kick ass. But to be honest, there has been a development draught. Most of the current features where done in mid 2003 when we hit M2 & 4. It should have been released in 2004. Now almost a year later its closer to completion yet i wonder why its still missing fundemental functionality to justify the name tag.

It hurts to see phpBB not on top with the market moving so fast.

I've prepared a list of things i would like to see added, and i ask the developers to kindly take into consideration. Im not a fan of unlimited features. But these are considered essential to the user of a board, and would be needed if not short term then definatly long term. Since its not only a forum, but considered as a community tool.
- Quick Reply (show/hide)
- Inclusion of variables in the Mass Email ($username, $user_email, $reg_date, etc)
- Subscription system (enable/disable)
- WYSIWYG support in posting rather than BBCode (enable/disable)

Also since phpbb's main asset is its many developers and MOD database, a good system for MOD support should come built in. Since phpbb3 is modular, then i see no reason it shouldnt enable better MOD installation from the ACP. Just as you would upload a template/icon pack/smilie pack - the same principles apply to mods.

I've discussed some of the issues raised here in other parts of the board, search for my posts if you're interested.

Thank you for your time.
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AdamR
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Re: Justifying the name PHPBB3!

Post by AdamR »

Please use the feature tracker on our SourceForge page. Thanks. :D

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dhn
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Re: Justifying the name PHPBB3!

Post by dhn »

BioALIEN wrote: Quick Reply (show/hide)
Was discussed before, I would point you to our fine search system, but that is currently disabled. So just trust us when we are saying, that we do not think that a quick reply belongs into a forum software. We have our reasons.
BioALIEN wrote: Subscription system (enable/disable)
Not a feature that enough people need to warrant the implementation. Sorry.
BioALIEN wrote: WYSIWYG support in posting rather than BBCode
Was also discussed before. Again, we have our reasons.

We are trying to reach the best compromise with the features we include, remember that this is a board that 1000s of admins are going to use, all with different needs. We also do not have the time to put everything in users want, see how long this development took. We are Open Source, we are doing this in our free time. The developers all have real life jobs. They are not able to work 8hours a day on this board, like certain other companies.
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DragonlordP
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Re: Justifying the name PHPBB3!

Post by DragonlordP »

this is not a serious answer, there are people here with the knowledge and will to help - so if you don't have enough time, ask for help.
bioalien you are wasting your time, the developers here are TOO stubborn.
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Re: Justifying the name PHPBB3!

Post by BioALIEN »

I know, and thats what really hurts me. Open Source is always better than commercial - as more people tend to use it and are LOYAL to it.

If hours per day is an issue then maybe the developers need to bring in some of the talent thats right in front of their eyes. We're all here trying to make sure we have the best community software. This isnt just a forum, one would only need to look at the MOD database to see how far this software can be extended. :roll: :|

One day these reasons they have not to implement these features will come back to haunt them. Quick Reply is and will always remain (no matter what anybody say) an essential part of this package. And we all know it! :evil:
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SHS`
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Re: Justifying the name PHPBB3!

Post by SHS` »

BioALIEN wrote: I know, and thats what really hurts me. Open Source is always better than commercial - as more people tend to use it and are LOYAL to it.
Open Source... that is by definition two things, one being the piece of software itself, and secondly the license it is under.

Any piece of software can be world changing and fantastic, regardless it's OSS or Closed Source.

Any peice of software can be complete and utter drivel, regardless it's OSS or Closed Source.

Any piece of software can be of quality anywhere inbetween those two extreme, regardless it's OSS or Closed Source.

Any company, group or individual canuse software that's OSS or Closed Source, and should choose on the basis of "what works for them", with whatever restrictions the license (if any) that brings.

Any zealot that subscribes to either OSS or Closed Source is better by just that fact, is... a zealot.
BioALIEN wrote: If hours per day is an issue then maybe the developers need to bring in some of the talent thats right in front of their eyes.
Ever heard of the term "too many cooks spoil the broth"?

A project needs direction and management. Plus it's of no use those purporting they can do "X, Y, Z" but actually aren't able to deliver.
BioALIEN wrote: We're all here trying to make sure we have the best community software. This isnt just a forum, one would only need to look at the MOD database to see how far this software can be extended. :roll: :|
Nothing stops someone from adding every single MOD in the MODs DB to a vanilla phpBB, though if you had such a piece of software... exactly how many of those new features are you actually going to use? How many would you ever give a monkey's about? How many of which will be wasting CPU cycles doing things you don't need?
BioALIEN wrote: One day these reasons they have not to implement these features will come back to haunt them. Quick Reply is and will always remain (no matter what anybody say) an essential part of this package. And we all know it! :evil:
The essense of "Quick Reply" enabled boards and their gems of "discussion" more often than not fall into:

"HEY GUYS LOOK WHAT I MADE IN PHOTOSHOP!"

"OMG U R SO FUNNY LOL!!!"

"THAT SUX 2/10 :roll: :roll: :roll: "

et cetera, ad nauseum.

... which for 100% of serious descussion boards is not what they want, and given the broad concensus of various community rules, would end up on the warning/ban list quite quickly too.

If a forum admin wishes to have Quick Reply, they are welcome to add a trivial MOD to their forum.

If you want feature bloat of everything in the known Universe, then phpBB (in it's virgin, vanilla, untainted state) probably isn't for you.

As for the justification of the 3.0.x number scheme, it's absolutely justified under the Linux kernel version numbering scheme... which in fact can by definition keep the feature set the same as the last version just as long as the API changes. In phpBB's case thought, there are a lot of new features but thankfully no Quick Reply. :)

PS: LOL
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BioALIEN
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Re: Justifying the name PHPBB3!

Post by BioALIEN »

Hehehe SHS, you're kinda scary carrying that big stick. Its wasting CPU cycles, better get rid of it and follow your own phpBB rules right :mrgreen:

My comments above regarding Open Source was merly targetted at phpbb vs other boards, not the open source industry in general. I want phpbb to stay on top, where it rightfully deserves to be.

With regards to Quick Reply, you're making an assumption there about spamming posts and short meaningless messages. It is upto the owner of the board to make that decision and rule - therefore it should be included in the ACP and left for the admin to choose.

Why have SAVE DRAFT, and yet no QUICK REPLY? Users tend to use the latter more. Its all about user psychology - make their life easier, and your life too (with mod support et all).

PS: LOL :twisted:
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psoTFX
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Re: Justifying the name PHPBB3!

Post by psoTFX »

Both yourself and DragonLordP need to understand a few things:

A) This is not your project, you do not make the decisions. If you cannot or will not accept that fact, good day to you.

B) The decisions made thus far re: features have been justified on numerous occassions (not that they actually need be given (A))

C) The reasoning behind the small development team has been discussed and justified several times (again not that it need be given (A))

D) You alone do not use this board, we serve thousands upon thousands of sites. If we catered to them all we'd never get anywhere and the average admin would be utterly lost in potential options. Keep this in mind because it so frequently is lost on people who only see their "need", their "desires" and their "wants".

None of these issues are "up for debate" (see (A)) at this time. When 3.0 is released all features will be re-examined and new ones possibly added. That's how development cycles work.
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Re: Justifying the name PHPBB3!

Post by Drexion »

BioALIEN>> You have to realise that certain other paid forum software have so many irrelevant/silly features, simply because there are users that say to them "I'll buy your forum software if you put in X, Y, and Z." Making money being a primary objective for those other developers, they then do so, resulting in bloated software, with tons of unnecessary features.

Thankfully phpBB does not have to go through such rubbish procedures, which result in an elegantly coded, non-bloated, awesome final product. Take a look at phpBB's code, its imo the most elegant coded PHP script of its type/size.

Too many hundreds of times when users (not saying you, but in general) complain about a feature not being in this software, its not because they truly need it, but because of "feature envy" - they see it on another forum software and want it even though they don't need it.

phpBB caters to thousands of admins, there are hundreds of thousands of phpBB forums in use - thus chances are what a single user thinks is necessary may not be seen as the same value by the majority.

Just because you do not see a feature available now does not mean it will never be included in the future - it possibly may well be, you never know - it simply means that the majority does not see it necessary at this time.

Don't get me wrong, constructive criticism is welcome, but that does not include debates over feature requests for 3.0. If you wish to make a feature request for 3.2, please feel free to use the sourceforge tracker, it will be reviewed appropriately.

DragonlordP>> Those kinds of silly comments on the other hand are not appreciated, and does not help anyone. Well honestly it is funny though, always humorous to see people tell us what we should do because they THINK so and so would be better. har har. :p
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Re: Justifying the name PHPBB3!

Post by BioALIEN »

Thanks Drexion, im with you fully - which is why i wasnt going left right and center with the feature requests.

The primary reason why i didnt go post these requests in the tracker either because they already exist, but i just wanted to raise this issue. Im not here complaining, or forcing the admins to introduce it. But simply to raise the importance of the features mentioned above.

From the early days of phpbb most of the features i thought were neccessary have been addressed respectivly. But the above, no matter how minor - does cater to the masses of users who could potentially install phpbb.

Mass Email, when you're sending an email ideally you'd want to personalise it to the person you're sending it to.

Quick Reply, say no more - its debated everywhere.

Subscription, if a board is succesful later on in its life time - the admin will want to secure its future. Thus subscriptions would be implemented. Thats just an example of long term need for this.

WYSIWYG - we're in 2005 arent we? Lets cater for the members.

All the above can be enabled/disabled from defaul ACP. So i dont really see where the implications arise.

But i understand where the developers stand on this. They dont want phpBB to compete with other boards. But nontheless, if you launch a poll, you'll be amazed how much the above features are needed by the general user base of phpbb.com :|
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