The Quake 4 syndrome.

[zarathoustra]

I think phpbb is victim of the "quake 4" symdrom, also known as the "one day" syndrome or "when it's ready" syndrome. They say they provide no deadline to avoid deception because it's hard to fullfil both a dealine requirement and a feature list requirement but, in the end time passes and nothing comes and people thinks about switching to a different software which isn't a lesser deception. I agree that its hard to manage both requirement for an open project, but other open projects have shown that a deadline requirement is better than a feature list requirement and a release that never comes.

I think phpbb, like other open projects groups, should only have a deadline and no fetaure requirement. You shoud issue a release every 3 months or 6 months, even if there's only 1 or 2 new features, it makes regular improvement to the software for the users and keep them happy. I think it's much better than a promised revolution that never comes.

Typically, other projects works on CVS for a time then freeze, then issue a beta 1 month before the dealine and then issue the realease one month later.

I think the best should be stopping adding new features, removing uncomplete features, and issueing a beta this month and a release in december, and then going on through 3 or 6 month cycles.

Personnaly i wonder if shouldn't change to another board which would offer more periodic improvements.

[dumbthingy]

... they provide no deadline to avoid deception because it's hard to fullfil both a dealine requirement and a feature list requirement but, in the end time passes and nothing comes and people thinks about switching to a different software which isn't a lesser deception ...

I fully agree. I enjoy upgrading forums because it is a little bit of a risk and I always enjoy telling people "we have upgraded to a new version, which is better and has a longer <whatever>, 219 new bugs fixed"... The developers don't even bother to give us a "semi-functional preview" of phpBB 2.1 (which is running in here!) but instead leave us alone with the CVS snapshots. Of course, it is unsupported and whatever, but if they give us the CVS snaps, they could also give us this "preview". Of course, a bit hidden, just like the snapshots, and declare it "no newbie ware"...

[CLee]

I know better than you!

[grön]

the beta will soon arive isnt that enught for you???

[BMWGuy]

Threads like this do not encourage the developers to do anything more than they are now. I'm guessing that unknowledgable people telling them (the developers) how things should be down can get very old at times.

zarathoustra: Just curious: what inspired your username? Was it Nietzsche's book? just curious...

[BartVB]

You do have a point but IMO 2.2 is a bit different. With 2.2 a _lot_ is going to change, it's not that it's just 2.0 with some extra knobs added, there is a fundamental difference in the way it has been set up.

Of course you can do that with one release and a partial reorganisation every 3 months or so but IMO that sucks hard because every new version would break 80% of the mods out there, conversion would be non trivial and the user wouldn't gain that much (in comparison with the amount of trouble you'll have to go through to upgrade).

But yes, when we started on 2.2 we had a much sooner release of 2.2 in our minds but you said it already, it's an open organisation, limited resources, only a few people working on it (I haven't been able to contribute at all up to this point ), etc, etc. And of course phpBB is not a fulltime job for anyone here, so if you buy a good book you'll read that book instead of slaving on phpBB 2.2 to make the deadline.

But in general, yes, harder deadlines based on time are better. I just don't know if they are suitable for phpBB. It's nearly impossible to make a decent planning when you don't know how much time developers can (not: want to!) spend on a project. And 99% of the IT projects take much longer than planned and when that happens the whining begins.. "It should have been finished in week 20 and we are in week 22 already! Morons!! I'm switching to *insert to other board*" which is not something that we're looking forward to

[zarathoustra]

I know better than you!

that's great but that was long. and my remarks are still sensical, they concern development mode, not this release only.

[zarathoustra]

Threads like this do not encourage the developers to do anything more than they are now. I'm guessing that unknowledgable people telling them (the developers) how things should be down can get very old at times.

zarathoustra: Just curious: what inspired your username? Was it Nietzsche's book? just curious...

It's just a notice of how things are for phpbb and how they are for projects, how it is a deception for phpbb users and how other projects doesn't have those problems.

And Nietzsche's book inspired my username.

[psoTFX]

Unlike Bart I'm not going to mince my words, particularly given the way you've phrased your post above. A "deception"? What tosh ... you feel this project should be run differently, good for you. You're entitled to your opinion and you're free to share it. However, it's not your project nor (as per the post CLee pointed to) do you have clear insight into why progression has been slow. Equally you do not appear to understand that "piling in" features to the existing 2.0.x codebase wasn't a realistic option. That a fundamental rewrite of various and numerous areas of existing code was required.

Given we've been here, done this more than once I'm locking this topic. I'm sure I'll receive PM's about that, goodo.