[RFC|Merged] Allow customisation of "Board index"

These requests for comments/change have lead to an implemented feature that has been successfully merged into the 3.1/Ascraeus branch. Everything listed in this forum will be available in phpBB 3.1.
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Re: [RFC|Merged] Allow customisation of "Board index"

Post by DavidIQ » Tue May 21, 2013 8:43 pm

Well we could re-name it "Message Board Index" to be more precise but that seems a bit long yet that's the correct term even today. ;)
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Re: [RFC|Merged] Allow customisation of "Board index"

Post by Pony99CA » Wed May 22, 2013 2:42 am

KnocksX wrote:That's an incorrect definition. A "board" and a "forum" are the same thing[....]
Perhaps to you, but phpBB has long used "board" to mean a collection of "forums".

I suppose that you could call it a "Forum List" if you wanted, but I haven't seen many people complain about "Board Index".

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Re: [RFC|Merged] Allow customisation of "Board index"

Post by KnocksX » Wed May 22, 2013 5:20 am

phpBB could also use the word gramophone instead of media player, but that wouldn't make it the hippest thing the the world. The word "board" is outdated when referring to forums, and the word "index" makes the user feel like he's in math class. Pointless arguments like these are the reason we are always behind on pushing new ideas through.

Everyone in the universe except us calls it Forum/Forums or a custom name. No one calls it a board index.

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Re: [RFC|Merged] Allow customisation of "Board index"

Post by imkingdavid » Wed May 22, 2013 6:44 am

Well, "Forums" is correct, since it is the collection of forums containing the topics on the board. "Burning Board" uses board in the name, but I disagree with the use of just "forum" to apply to the whole group of forums, since it should be plural if it is not just one collection of topics. Whether or not we or they use "board" is really not a big deal, and I don't know of any real dissatisfaction among phpBB users with the use of the word "board" either. After all, phpBB stands for "PHP Bulletin Board", not PHP Forums.

Anyway, this sort of argument (though I'd like to call it a discussion, instead), as you said, is pointless and I'm not sure why we're actually having it. There is not a problem that I am aware of with the current terminology in use, and a simple feature has been merged into the next major version of phpBB that allows administrators to use the terminology with which they are most comfortable.
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Re: [RFC|Merged] Allow customisation of "Board index"

Post by KnocksX » Wed May 22, 2013 7:26 am

I think the discussion is worth having because it demonstrates once again how resistant phpBB is to change. You're right that phpBB, vBulletin, and Burning Board all use the remnants of the term "bulletin board" in their names, but it's one thing to use it for branding purposes (where it's kind of cute) and another to name a functioning, user-facing part of your software with it. Admins care that phpBB runs on PHP, while users don't give a crap. Users don't want technical terms. They want a friendly interface to interact with their fellow forum users, post their thoughts and read other people's thoughts.

Users don't report dissatisfaction with a lot of things, and you can't expect them to, but that doesn't mean it those things don't require tweaking or improving. As Steve Jobs put it, "people don't know what they want until you show it to them." Users don't create the user experience. Developers and UX designers create the user experience. So it's our job to step out of our nerdy developer mindsets and ask, "Why are we still calling this thing an index out of the box?"

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Re: [RFC|Merged] Allow customisation of "Board index"

Post by DavidIQ » Wed May 22, 2013 10:42 am

I know of one user that has had an issue with this...you. Just like imkingdavid mentioned, I am unaware of any widespread issue with the current labeling. When people want to relabel it I seriously doubt it is because they want to change it to just Forum or Forums because they consider the word board so 90s. I have had a client ask for it to be changed and it wasn't to anything even remotely close to "forums".

That you have taken this as some indication that phpBB is resistant to change is pretty disingenuous, missleading, wrong and very disrespectful to those that have been listening to the users in general (not just a single user). If you want to continue this discussion please do so elsewhere as it is irrelevant to this RFC.
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Re: [RFC|Merged] Allow customisation of "Board index"

Post by Un1matr1x » Wed May 22, 2013 2:44 pm

KnocksX wrote:... the only difference being that "board" sounds a lot more 1990s.
Aren't the '90s coming back to be "cool/tide/groovy/..." (not sure what hipsters, like you, are curently using)?
KnocksX wrote:phpBB could also use the word gramophone instead of media player, but that wouldn't make it the hippest thing the the world. The word "board" is outdated when referring to forums ...
I never seen this "media player" @ phpbb or even the need to be the hippest thing in the world - a board has to be functional, easy to use and then pretty (and I would still argue if "forum" is prettier then "board index").
KnocksX wrote:... the word "index" makes the user feel like he's in math class.
This might some association you have, but Index is a bit more widely used afair
KnocksX wrote:Users don't want technical terms. They want a friendly interface to interact with their fellow forum users, post their thoughts and read other people's thoughts. [...] Users don't report dissatisfaction with a lot of things, and you can't expect them to, but that doesn't mean it those things don't require tweaking or improving. As Steve Jobs put it, "people don't know what they want until you show it to them."
And you know that "board index" is a PITA for the user experience? Why are you so damn sure that "forum" is sooo much better - I don't get this point at all ~ and I'm sorry to tell but I'm no "nerdy developer".
KnocksX wrote:No one calls it a board index.
[... some images of other boards with FORUM on it ...]
And you thing it's the "hippest thing in the world" - I heared of an idiom: Only dead fish swim with the stream. - so why aren't you talking about something beside words - let's try icons or whatever, but I bet if "board index" is changed to "forum" over 99% of the users won't even recognize

And finaly:
KnocksX wrote:Pointless arguments like these are the reason we are always behind on pushing new ideas through.
The reason why the development of phpBB is so slow might be a result of this very very usefull "discussions" about tiny little things nobody really care about, except one or two users @ area51

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Re: [RFC|Merged] Allow customisation of "Board index"

Post by Pony99CA » Wed May 22, 2013 8:39 pm

KnocksX wrote:phpBB could also use the word gramophone instead of media player, but that wouldn't make it the hippest thing the the world.
That's silly on two levels. First, you're attacking a straw man with your "gramophone" argument. Second, I didn't realize that being "hip" was part of our mission statement. Some people consider bulletin boards/forums themselves passe, but so what?
KnocksX wrote:The word "board" is outdated when referring to forums, and the word "index" makes the user feel like he's in math class. Pointless arguments like these are the reason we are always behind on pushing new ideas through.
Again, that's silly. Who made you the arbiter of the English language with respect to things being "hip" or "outdated"? And "index" is more often used in English classes (creating an index for your book) or computer science classes (indexing an array) than math.

And if the discussion is pointless, why did you bring it up? Oh, right, because you presumed that everybody either thought like you or would agree with your superlative logic. :roll:

Regardless, the user can control the name of the link in the ACP with Tabitha's change (right, Tabitha?), so what phpBB calls it is almost moot. However, if we do change it, I thank that "Forum Home" or "Discussions" would be better than just "Forums". "Forums" sounds more like something from Roman times, so how hip is that? :lol:

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Re: [RFC|Merged] Allow customisation of "Board index"

Post by tmbackoff » Thu May 23, 2013 2:19 pm

Pony99CA wrote:Regardless, the user can control the name of the link in the ACP with Tabitha's change (right, Tabitha?), so what phpBB calls it is almost moot.
Correct.

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