[RFC] Responsive layout

These requests for comments/change have lead to an implemented feature that has been successfully merged into the 3.1/Ascraeus branch. Everything listed in this forum will be available in phpBB 3.1.
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Senky
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Re: [RFC] Reponsive layout

Post by Senky » Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:13 am

Oleg wrote:...Practically, mobile style should be lighter than a desktop style, due to bandwidth available on mobile devices...
This is why I am for creating new, mobile style AND rewriting prosilver to responsive layout. It would display prosilver properly even if new mobile browser is being used and phpBB will not have user-agent match included yet. However, we should send much less data to mobiles, thus creating mobile style is really important.

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callumacrae
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Re: [RFC] Reponsive layout

Post by callumacrae » Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:39 am

Senky wrote:
Oleg wrote:...Practically, mobile style should be lighter than a desktop style, due to bandwidth available on mobile devices...
This is why I am for creating new, mobile style AND rewriting prosilver to responsive layout. It would display prosilver properly even if new mobile browser is being used and phpBB will not have user-agent match included yet. However, we should send much less data to mobiles, thus creating mobile style is really important.
Yeah, this is exactly what I think, too.
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Re: [RFC] Reponsive layout

Post by Arty » Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:46 pm

That sounds good. Then we'll be able to compare both solutions and select which one to use.. or maybe both.
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Re: [RFC] Reponsive layout

Post by keith10456 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:46 pm

Arty wrote:
Unknown Bliss wrote:Why are you making a separate RFC?
In addition to what callumacrae posted, posting suggestion like this in 10 pages long thread is never a good idea. As soon as thread will reach page 11, everyone replying to it will not read my post (nobody reads 10 pages of thread, people read only first and last pages) and will reply to what was discussed in first post of thread. It is pointless.
Thanks for explaining...

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Re: [RFC] Reponsive layout

Post by Oleg » Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:16 pm

Arty wrote: Stylesheet, images, scripts are loaded from server only on first page load, then those elements are loaded from browser cache.
"First page load" should be fast. Waiting 10 minutes for the first page to load is not acceptable.
Arty wrote: 5x is realistic if you count all external elements that are cached, but 10x is unrealistic.
Yes, counting everything that is loaded.
Arty wrote: That's by design and it will stay there. Just because style is usable on mobile device, doesn't mean it has to look ugly. Prosilver does not have such design feature.
You seem to be trying to make a style for broadband connections that happen to have narrow browser width. This is different from a lightweight mobile style.

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Re: [RFC] Reponsive layout

Post by Arty » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:13 pm

Oleg wrote:"First page load" should be fast. Waiting 10 minutes for the first page to load is not acceptable.
10 minutes? We are not in last century, mobile connections are very fast. It takes 5-6 seconds for me to load first page on my phone without cache, 2-3 seconds for subsequent pages, which is similar to speed I get on my computer.
Oleg wrote:You seem to be trying to make a style for broadband connections that happen to have narrow browser width. This is different from a lightweight mobile style.
Yes, exactly. This is what this topic is about - adjusting existing style to work on narrow width browsers, not to make separate lightweight mobile style.
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Re: [RFC] Reponsive layout

Post by MichaelC » Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:45 pm

Oleg wrote:Conceptually, browser window size less than 1000 horizontal pixels does not necessitate a mobile device, despite what a lot of people seem to think nowadays.

Practically, mobile style should be lighter than a desktop style, due to bandwidth available on mobile devices. Let's say at least 5x lighter, maybe 10x lighter. A single style still loads 1) all markup, 2) all images, 3) huge stylesheet. I'm seeing shadow and corner images in livehttpheaders. These all should not be existing in a mobile style.
+1

Speed does matter. I'm personally with going for a separate style route after seeing some benchmarks. The three things that should be important for use on a mobile:
  • Maintainable - This would likely be easier with having a responsive design; however how often will it get tested during development (except functional tests) on mobiles & tablets? It could get too easily broken. I'd say they are about equal, maybe with a responsive design edging it. With a separate style there isn't much to maintain. ;)
  • Usablity - It needs to be easy as possible to use. While responsive designs do an ok job of this, its still a lot easier with something purpose built.
  • Speed - We've already worked out that purpose built is a lot better in this respect.
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Re: [RFC] Reponsive layout

Post by Arty » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:27 pm

Unknown Bliss wrote:Maintainable - This would likely be easier with having a responsive design; however how often will it get tested during development (except functional tests) on mobiles & tablets? It could get too easily broken. I'd say they are about equal, maybe with a responsive design edging it. With a separate style there isn't much to maintain. ;)
That's a good point. Most forum owners have no clue about HTML, they'll put tables or whatever in header/footer to add their own logo and will completely mess up responsive layout while doing it. They won't mess up separate mobile style.
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Re: [RFC] Reponsive layout

Post by Oleg » Mon Sep 17, 2012 5:47 pm

"Responsive layout" is then fine and dandy (assuming I can still access everything with smaller width windows) but not a replacement for a mobile style.
Arty wrote: 10 minutes? We are not in last century, mobile connections are very fast. It takes 5-6 seconds for me to load first page on my phone without cache, 2-3 seconds for subsequent pages, which is similar to speed I get on my computer.
Please keep in mind you are not only building software for yourself here.

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Re: [RFC] Reponsive layout

Post by Arty » Mon Sep 17, 2012 6:28 pm

Oleg wrote:Please keep in mind you are not only building software for yourself here.
Of course, but please use real numbers, do not exaggerate.
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