[RFC|Merged] Require PHP 5.3

These requests for comments/change have lead to an implemented feature that has been successfully merged into the 3.1/Ascraeus branch. Everything listed in this forum will be available in phpBB 3.1.
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Erik Frèrejean
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Re: [RFC] Require PHP 5.3

Post by Erik Frèrejean » Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:28 am

naderman wrote:The way I see this is the following: We want to finish 3.1 as soon as possible. Extensions need to be finished to release 3.1. Extensions would be easier and quicker to implement fully if we could use third party components for them. Third party components we would like to use for extensions require PHP 5.3. So let's just require PHP 5.3, to get 3.1 done already, so we can move on.
Which libraries are you thinking of?
Oleg wrote:If that is the case it seems perfectly ok to me to require 5.3. Any hosts still using 5.2 must either compile it themselves or use unofficial packages; in either case it is legitimate to ask them to provide 5.3.
Therefore
Erik Frèrejean wrote:
igorw wrote:At this point it just doesn't make sense to support PHP 5.2.
What percentage of phpBB boards run PHP 5.3?
We have a nice statistics thingy. How large is the user base that still runs 5.2? Breaking backwards compatibility shouldn't be taken to light hearted, how many users will be affected by this and does the potential gain outweigh the size of the user base that is still on that platform.
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Re: [RFC] Require PHP 5.3

Post by igorw » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:20 pm

Erik Frèrejean wrote:Which libraries are you thinking of?
igorw wrote:Use Symfony2 EventDispatcher instead of copy-paste maintaining the code base (see this PR)
Oleg wrote:We could use event dispatcher verbatim and I think a dependency injection container along with an asset management contraption would be handy as well.
Erik Frèrejean wrote:We have a nice statistics thingy. How large is the user base that still runs 5.2? Breaking backwards compatibility shouldn't be taken to light hearted, how many users will be affected by this and does the potential gain outweigh the size of the user base that is still on that platform.
Someone with access (i.e. management) would have to run some queries again. Last time we did, most (around 80-90%) new installations were on PHP <=5.2. It may have improved a bit by now, but I'm guessing not much. I have already given my opinion on the matter.

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Re: [RFC] Require PHP 5.3

Post by Erik Frèrejean » Wed Feb 08, 2012 12:30 pm

igorw wrote:
Erik Frèrejean wrote:We have a nice statistics thingy. How large is the user base that still runs 5.2? Breaking backwards compatibility shouldn't be taken to light hearted, how many users will be affected by this and does the potential gain outweigh the size of the user base that is still on that platform.
Someone with access (i.e. management) would have to run some queries again. Last time we did, most (around 80-90%) new installations were on PHP <=5.2. It may have improved a bit by now, but I'm guessing not much. I have already given my opinion on the matter.
If that is indeed the case I'm sorry to say that this is a no-brainer, you just can't defend breaking compatibility for such a large part of your user base.
igorw wrote:
Erik Frèrejean wrote:Which libraries are you thinking of?
igorw wrote:Use Symfony2 EventDispatcher instead of copy-paste maintaining the code base (see this PR)
As far as I can see is that 5.2 compatible.
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Re: [RFC] Require PHP 5.3

Post by igorw » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:02 pm

Erik Frèrejean wrote:As far as I can see is that 5.2 compatible.
No. The symfony1 EventDispatcher Component is 5.2 compatible. The Symfony2 EventDispatcher is not. Using something from 2 years ago that has a newer, better, and more maintained version just doesn't make sense.

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Re: [RFC] Require PHP 5.3

Post by Erik Frèrejean » Wed Feb 08, 2012 1:28 pm

igorw wrote:
Erik Frèrejean wrote:As far as I can see is that 5.2 compatible.
No. The symfony1 EventDispatcher Component is 5.2 compatible. The Symfony2 EventDispatcher is not. Using something from 2 years ago that has a newer, better, and more maintained version just doesn't make sense.
Okay, thats my mistake. I looked at the one on the components page (http://components.symfony-project.org/event-dispatcher/), which apparently is a different one.
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Re: [RFC] Require PHP 5.3

Post by igorw » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:10 pm

If we keep supporting old stuff it will live on forever. Just look at IE6.

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Re: [RFC] Require PHP 5.3

Post by Erik Frèrejean » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:54 pm

There is a difference between "forever", and supporting it as long the fast majority still uses it.
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Re: [RFC] Require PHP 5.3

Post by imkingdavid » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:13 pm

Erik Frèrejean wrote:There is a difference between "forever", and supporting it as long the fast majority still uses it.
Generally, the vast* majority will still use it until they are required to upgrade, imo.
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Re: [RFC] Require PHP 5.3

Post by Jacob » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:30 pm

PHP 5.3 was released in june 2009, more or less like IE8. If we think IE7 is outdated we could make the same assumption about PHP 5.2, I guess.

It's true that a lot of hosts still deploy php 5.2 and 5.1 (Centos 5, Debian 5...), and they will still do in the future as long as people don't ask them to update.

I say, make an announcement now and give hosts a few months to update (you -meaning manage team or whoever- could even talk in private with a few of them if you have the possibility). Tell admins they need to poke their hosts (or update themselves). phpBB is not the center of the world but I honestly think lots os hosts will prefer to update than listen to the complaints/requests of forum users. When a considerable ammount of them had updated the others will need to follow.

I don't think this is an unreasonable request. It certainly is a step ahead.

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Re: [RFC] Require PHP 5.3

Post by naderman » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:55 pm

Stats for 3.0.10 to date:

Code: Select all

4.3: <  1.0%
4.4:    2.5%
5.0: <  1.0%
5.1:    1.2%
5.2:   56.9%
5.3:   39.0%
5.4: <  1.0%
Stats for 3.0.8:

Code: Select all

4.3: < 1.0%
4.4:   4.2%
5.0: < 1.0%
5.1:   2.2%
5.2:  67.6%
5.3:  25.5%
Based on this, I think it's fair to assume that by the time 3.1 is released, 5.3 and 5.4 will make up a large majority of our users' platforms. Certainly enough to simply force the rest to upgrade their PHP to 5.3 if they want to update to phpBB 3.1. Do keep in mind that we will continue to support 3.0.x for a while after the release 3.1 as well. So I really do not see a problem with requiring PHP 5.3 at all.

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