Properly Name Links Found in Quick Links and Fix ll Link Grammar

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hanakin
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Properly Name Links Found in Quick Links and Fix ll Link Grammar

Post by hanakin »

Ref: https://area51.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopi ... 81&t=46047 <- this pointed out one of them but this topic is about all of these types of links as their names do in order to accurately describe what they do! And as someone who never uses them It is very confusing!

The current links in the menu I am referring to are

Your Posts
New Posts
Unread Posts
Unanswered Posts

Also by the same point the link on the profile

Search users posts

Lets start with a grammar lesson, and this applies to all links. A link is a title and titles are Camel Case not Sentence case. This applies to every language variable at least in the english language that is a link ie: "Private Messages", "Quick Links", "Contact Us" etc... Why do you think FAQ is upper case?(Frequently Asked Questions)

Now lets define link functionality for those I have issue with.

Search User's Posts: Returns a list of your posts (post view)
Your Posts: Returns a list of topics that you have contributed to (topic view)
New Posts: Returns a list of topics that have posts newer than your last visit (topic view)
Unread Posts: Returns a list of topics that have posts you have not seen (topic view)
Unanswered Posts: Returns a list of topics that have no replies (topic view)

Your Posts: This is inaccurate as it does not return a list of posts but topics so either make it function exactly like "Search User's Posts" and return in post view or change the name to something like "Topics Posted In"

Search User's Posts: Should be "Your Posts" and in the case that some else is viewing your profile it should be "Username's Posts"

New Posts: By name this is puzzling as a "New" implies something that was not present before so anything since our last visit but this then "Crosses Streams" and if I learned nothing from Ghostbusters its that crossing stream is bad, you have the functionality already provided via "Unread Posts" & "Unanswered Posts" So I think this should be removed all together

Unanswered Posts: This does not return Posts but Topics so it should be called "New Topics"
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Re: Properly Name Links Found in Quick Links and Fix ll Link Grammar

Post by DavidIQ »

hanakin wrote:Unanswered Posts: This does not return Posts but Topics so it should be called "New Topics"
I think you meant "Unanswered Topics" because unanswered topics are not just new topics.
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Re: Properly Name Links Found in Quick Links and Fix ll Link Grammar

Post by John P »

Haha endless discussion, but because of all of posts about this subject it should be take serious.
The title is not what it is showing as result, so the title is wrong now.

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Re: Properly Name Links Found in Quick Links and Fix ll Link Grammar

Post by VSE »

hanakin wrote:New Posts: By name this is puzzling as a "New" implies something that was not present before so anything since our last visit but this then "Crosses Streams" and if I learned nothing from Ghostbusters its that crossing stream is bad, you have the functionality already provided via "Unread Posts" & "Unanswered Posts" So I think this should be removed all together
New Posts must NOT be removed! It is NOT the same as Unanswered Posts or Unread Posts!!!!!!!!!

New posts makes sense - these are new posts since your last visit. For me on A51, that's about 6 posts, since my last visit.

Unanswered posts are ALL posts that exists in the forum that have not been replied to yet. For me on A51, that's over 50 pages of topics.

Unread posts are ALL posts in the entire forum you have not read. For me on A51, that's also over 50 pages of topics.

New Posts is correct in usage and naming (because they are not new topics either, they are topics which have had new posts since your last visit, and this is one of THE MOST VITAL links to returning board users who want to see what's new!!!!!)
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Re: Properly Name Links Found in Quick Links and Fix ll Link Grammar

Post by Pony99CA »

hanakin wrote:Lets start with a grammar lesson, and this applies to all links. A link is a title and titles are Camel Case not Sentence case. This applies to every language variable at least in the english language that is a link ie: "Private Messages", "Quick Links", "Contact Us" etc... Why do you think FAQ is upper case?(Frequently Asked Questions)
First, and nothing personal, but from having read many of your posts, you shouldn't be giving grammar lessons. Your word choice is often incorrect (possibly from not being a native English speaker?). Just look above, where I see the following errors:
  • You said "english" instead of "English". (To be fair, that could just be a typo.)
  • Where you said, "This applies to every language variable at least in the english language that is a link", you should have used commas or parentheses (like "This applies to every language variable, at least in the English language, that is a link").
  • You misused (and mistyped) "i.e.". You meant "e.g.", "example given", not "i.e." (which basically means "in other words").
Again, please don't take the above as a grammar attack on you (I have not bothered correcting you in the past because I knew what you meant). However, in this case, where you're claiming grammatical high ground, I wanted to prove to you that your grammar needs a lot of work before you try to give all of us a "lesson". ;)

I believe that you also misused camel case -- a word created by computer people, I think, to refer to variable and function names like CamelCaseIsLikeThis -- where you meant "title case" (Title Case Is Like This and This). Here's one reference on title casing.

Finally, FAQ is capitalized because it's an acronym, not because of what the acronym stands for.

Second, links are not always titles. A link should only use title case if the text in the link is the title of the page or section being linked to. Contrast the following: this topic and Properly Name Links Found in Quick Links and Fix ll Link Grammar. I hope that you'll agree that the first link text should not be "This Topic", right?

Third, in the case of Quick Links, it's a actually menu (whose items happen to be links). Menu actions often use sentence case. For example, in IE 10 (which I'm using now), the Edit menu has actions like "Select all" and "Find on this page...". As far as I'm concerned, they can also use title case, but phpBB apparently chose not to do that (for example, look at "Board index" in the breadcrumbs).

So, for the most part, I reject your premise. You may think that things look better the way that you propose, but that's a stylistic difference, not a factual one. At this point in the game, I think that it's too late to worry about stylistic minutiae such as this.

I do think that "Your posts" should be changed to properly reflect that topics are returned, not posts. That's a factual, not stylistic, difference. However, that's discussed in the Change "Your Posts" to "My Posts" topic.

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Re: Properly Name Links Found in Quick Links and Fix ll Link Grammar

Post by hanakin »

DavidIQ wrote:
hanakin wrote:Unanswered Posts: This does not return Posts but Topics so it should be called "New Topics"
I think you meant "Unanswered Topics" because unanswered topics are not just new topics.
No I meant New but its up for discussion.

I believe New is better as it is a new topic to the forums and it only holds this status until its replied to.
VSE wrote: New posts makes sense - these are new posts since your last visit. For me on A51, that's about 6 posts, since my last visit.

Unanswered posts are ALL posts that exists in the forum that have not been replied to yet. For me on A51, that's over 50 pages of topics.

Unread posts are ALL posts in the entire forum you have not read. For me on A51, that's also over 50 pages of topics.

New Posts is correct in usage and naming (because they are not new topics either, they are topics which have had new posts since your last visit, and this is one of THE MOST VITAL links to returning board users who want to see what's new!!!!!)
@VSE as I stated I do not use these regularly and if I use any of them its only "your posts" so any corrections to what I listed pls and thk you.
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Re: Properly Name Links Found in Quick Links and Fix ll Link Grammar

Post by VSE »

I think everything in the Quicklinks menu is just fine. As usual, its using language that has been with phpBB for those links since phpBB2.

The only thing that could be debatable is "Your posts" vs. "My posts". However, all language throughout phpBB is usually very 3rd person and impersonal. Nothing refers to me, mine or my... To switch "Your" posts to "My" posts, would really mean re-writing everywhere in phpBB that there is text referring to the user - ie: My profile, My Control Panel, My Subscriptions, etc... and going down that road (including the over 50 languages to translate) is not at all worth it.
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Re: Properly Name Links Found in Quick Links and Fix ll Link Grammar

Post by hanakin »

@Pony99CA

I am sorry but you seem to misunderstand the difference between mediums of a posts and a design, as well as Grammer and Vocabulary.
Pony99CA wrote:First, and nothing personal, but from having read many of your posts, you shouldn't be giving grammar lessons. Your word choice is often incorrect (possibly from not being a native English speaker?). Just look above, where I see the following errors:
  • You said "english" instead of "English". (To be fair, that could just be a typo.)
  • Where you said, "This applies to every language variable at least in the english language that is a link", you should have used commas or parentheses (like "This applies to every language variable, at least in the English language, that is a link").
  • You misused (and mistyped) "i.e.". You meant "e.g.", "example given", not "i.e." (which basically means "in other words").
Again, please don't take the above as a grammar attack on you (I have not bothered correcting you in the past because I knew what you meant). However, in this case, where you're claiming grammatical high ground, I wanted to prove to you that your grammar needs a lot of work before you try to give all of us a "lesson". ;)
I am a native to the US and "English" is my primary language as I have informed you once before IIRC. I am not sure what it is you do for a living but it seems that you do a lot of writing. Most of us here are developers & designers and do not write on a regular basis. This means that we do not think gramatically when we are getting our thoughts out and would required reviewing and throughly proofing everything we write. In the concept of a post in a development disscussion forum this seems like overkill to me. Unless its an offical annoucment or somthing. So the grammar and vocabulary I use in my posts like most individuals on here may not be the bests as we do not have the time to completely proof read and grammatically check them.
Pony99CA wrote: I believe that you also misused camel case -- a word created by computer people, I think, to refer to variable and function names like CamelCaseIsLikeThis -- where you meant "title case" (Title Case Is Like This and This). Here's one reference on title casing.
This is called knowing your audience "Camel Case" was chosen as its similar enough to convey the point.
Pony99CA wrote: Finally, FAQ is capitalized because it's an acronym, not because of what the acronym stands for.
FAQ is not capitilized because its an acronym. An acronym is an abbreviation of a common title. The case of the title is matched in the acronym. Hmm where have I seen this concept before -> "phpBB".
Pony99CA wrote: Second, links are not always titles. A link should only use title case if the text in the link is the title of the page or section being linked to. Contrast the following: this topic and Properly Name Links Found in Quick Links and Fix ll Link Grammar. I hope that you'll agree that the first link text should not be "This Topic", right?
Never said all links, I believe I said template variable links. Which are proper titles.
Pony99CA wrote: Third, in the case of Quick Links, it's a actually menu (whose items happen to be links). Menu actions often use sentence case. For example, in IE 10 (which I'm using now), the Edit menu has actions like "Select all" and "Find on this page...". As far as I'm concerned, they can also use title case, but phpBB apparently chose not to do that (for example, look at "Board index" in the breadcrumbs).
Yes Quick links is a menu but that makes no difference as by your logic a page or section should use proper titles "New Posts" is a page that is being returned in your example of Select all, that is an action. In the case of 3.0 we ae using these links as actions "View your posts" but in 3.1 we renamed them to be titles and should treat them as such.
Pony99CA wrote: So, for the most part, I reject your premise. You may think that things look better the way that you propose, but that's a stylistic difference, not a factual one.
I reject your logic for rejecting my premise. Yes they do look better that way, but they are also "Titles" can you really argue that "Contact Us" is not a page?
Pony99CA wrote:At this point in the game, I think that it's too late to worry about stylistic minutiae such as this.
You will note that I posted this in the disscusion forum that is because this has bearing on not just 3.1 and prosilver but any changes that we may need to make in future styles.
Pony99CA wrote: I do think that "Your posts" should be changed to properly reflect that topics are returned, not posts. That's a factual, not stylistic, difference.
Link names need to define what they do and since what it returns is not posts this is highly confusing to those who are not familiar with the links so your argument about it being stylistic is ludacris.
Pony99CA wrote:that's discussed in the Change "Your Posts" to "My Posts" topic.
Thats why I chose to ref: that post
hanakin wrote:Ref: https://area51.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopi ... 81&t=46047 <- this pointed out one of them but this topic is about all of these types of links as their names do in order to accurately describe what they do! And as someone who never uses them It is very confusing!
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Re: Properly Name Links Found in Quick Links and Fix ll Link Grammar

Post by DavidIQ »

hanakin wrote:No I meant New but its up for discussion.

I believe New is better as it is a new topic to the forums and it only holds this status until its replied to.
I'm sorry but you are wrong and really this is not up for discussion. You have an incorrect understanding of what this list is providing and are incorrectly applying this assumption to the text change you are suggesting.

Let me try and explain it a little better: New posts are new from the last time you visited the forum. If you were to visit a forum at a certain time, then came back a few hours later you will find that the "New posts" list will give you what is new, including topics that have had new posts, from the last time you visited. In contrast to this the "Unanswered posts" list will give a list of topics that have not had a response at all, which can include new topics as well. This is why it would probably be better to label this "Unanswered topics" but "New posts" does not fit very well with this list as that is not what this list returns even if there might be a few new topics in it.
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Re: Properly Name Links Found in Quick Links and Fix ll Link Grammar

Post by hanakin »

@DavidIQ

thanks for the explanation.

I still think that New Topics is a better label then unanswered as they are still new until they are answered but could just be me, as I view new similar to a notification.

The New posts I get that its anything new since you last visited but it does not fit in the way I use forums which is where my point of view is probably coming from. I only read forums I feel is of importance and mark the rest as read upon visit so the current concept of New Posts does the same thing for me as unread posts.

Also keep in mind I am not just thinking about this in the mindset of prosilver, but from a UI generality as to how it can be implemented cleaner in a new design
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