[RFC|Rejected] Removal of subsilver2

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ToonArmy
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[RFC|Rejected] Removal of subsilver2

Post by ToonArmy » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:57 pm

As you are most probably aware phpBB 3.0 has been distributed to this date with two styles, prosilver and subsilver2. In this arrangement subsilver2 has been a bit like the neglected child, we try to maintain it but it can be forgotten and sometimes feels like a thorn in our side. The question is do we continue to develop subsilver2 with the new features arriving in Ascraeus or do we let it die and pass into the ether? Views and opinions are welcome.
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stickerboy
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Re: subsilver2

Post by stickerboy » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:13 am

To be honest, and this is my own personal opinion, I think we should stop development of subSilver 2. I understand that a lot of people use it and styles based on it, but I think it's time to lay it to rest. I don't actually support it in anything I do - I find prosilver a lot easier and cleaner to work with :)
I've seen it before that 1 or 2 prosilver changes for a feature/bug becomes 7 or 8 changes for sS2 - to me that's not a very efficient use of time & resources. It's time that could be spent making phpBB better :P

I'm surprised that one-one has posted a prosilver based subSilver style (prosilver base code, but using images/layout of subSilver). That's the best of both worlds :mrgreen: At least if they have, I've not seen it yet.
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Re: subsilver2

Post by idiotnesia » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:50 am

I also agree that phpBB need to stop develop subsilver2. But please note that a lot of people don't like prosilver [rounded corner thing, user profile menu in right and so on]

Another option is to build subsilver based on prosilver. You can called it subsilver3 ;)
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Re: subsilver2

Post by igorw » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:10 pm

idiotnesia wrote:Another option is to build subsilver based on prosilver. You can called it subsilver3 ;)
I agree that this would be a good solution.

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Re: subsilver2

Post by code reader » Thu Mar 04, 2010 5:40 pm

i think that the main issue here is style inheritance.
since we do support style inheritance now, i think that the question is: how many existing subsilver-based styles use it?
if there are some who do, to stop supporting it would mean that we deprive the developers of those style of the option of the option to upgrade to 3.1.

imo this would be a bad thing.
however, if all the subsilver styles are done in cut/paste, i do not see a huge problem with stopping the support.
maybe one of them will publish a "how to upgrade your subsilver based style to 3.1" on the wiki...

of course, a different issu altogether is the necessity to fix prosilver, especially where performance is concerned.
we know for some time now that prosilver has some serious issues, specifically around the use of css:
-- style.php is expensive, performance-wise.
-- unlike subsilver, the cache does not work as intended: modifying one of the .css files does not trigger automatic recompilation. i think it's becuase of the @inclusion, but i am not sure.
-- the whole "css in the database" is a mess.

in short: prosilver needs some fixin', not in the .html or .css, but in the php mechanism that handles the css.
this is not directly related to stopping the support for subsilver, except that for some time now subsilver was the "last resort" of those who got burned by one of prosilver issues mentioned.

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Re: subsilver2

Post by Dog Cow » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:13 pm

Let's kill it. I don't like how it looks, anyway.

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Re: subsilver2

Post by VSE » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:26 am

I would love to see subsilver2 go away - it is the only way I will be able to get it off my forum without a revolt by some of the members! :lol:

PS: I too have found subsilver2 makes my life difficult when writing Mods... :?
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Re: subsilver2

Post by naderman » Tue Mar 09, 2010 6:44 pm

My view on subsilver2:
  • It causes extra work during development, that is not helping phpBB's main goal of becoming a better forum software
  • It causes extra work for MOD authors to support two very different templates - many don't even bother support both templates
  • Keeping two very different base templates up to date with MODs is a lot of work for users
So I agree that the best choice would be to get rid of it. We can still look into building a subsilver3 with CSS and some very few template changes with most stuff inherited.

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Re: subsilver2

Post by ToonArmy » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:38 pm

naderman wrote:We can still look into building a subsilver3 with CSS and some very few template changes with most stuff inherited.
We could probably get something that's much closer to subSilver than the (imo) ugliness that is subsilver2
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Re: subsilver2

Post by Aled » Tue Mar 09, 2010 8:07 pm

Yeah I prefer the original legendary simpler subsilver, maybe something which pretty much matches it but with a few modifications (username display above avatar is a link in forum posts maybe :P)

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