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dhn
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Re: Petition

Post by dhn »

psoTFX wrote: Our greatest threats come from terrorists, either conventionally or God forbid, unconventionaly armed.
That's exactly why I find the current tactics of the US government and its allies rather counter-productive. Do you think there are now less terrorists (or potential terrorists) out there who want to kill americans? They are evoking holy wars being called against them almost daily now and I really don't see any reason why the Iraqi intervention mission did anything good in that direction but worsen the situation extremely.

On a side note. I wish the palatines would finally try out the Gandhi method of war. They'd bring the Isrealis down to their knees in days.
psoTFX wrote:The truth is a ruthless dictator who for 12 years flouted UN resolution after UN resolution was kicked out of power. We ended his torturing of civilians and put an end to any plans he may have had (and based on historical evidence there is ample reason to think he did have such plans) with regard his neighbours or the wider community. As far as I'm concerned, good ridden and well done to the U.S., British, Australian, Dutch, Polish and other troops that did that job and did it well.
Saddam is gone, good. No question in that. If that is everything that was meant to being accomplished, well done. But one has to face and consider the consequences. Something that the US government seems to have some problems with. Either that, or they don't really care.
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psoTFX
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Re: Petition

Post by psoTFX »

The argument of "But all you did was create more terrorists" is rather moot ... I could equally say "Do you think us sitting back and doing nothing would lead to fewer terrorists"? The answer to that btw is an obvious "No" :)

As for worsening the situation ... tell me, did a certain German Chancellor claim that? The same Chancellor that claimed tens or hundreds of thousands of casualties ;) I can't say I've seen much increase in international terrorism following the liberation of Iraq from Saddam's rule ... what's happening in Iraq now was to be (and I suspect was always) expected.

There are people who simply disagree with the actions of other individuals, nations or religions ... doesn't matter what they say or do, you won't change their opinions. Fundamentalist groups, whether they be Islamic or of a different belief system are a particularly radical bunch willing to kill themselves and others without a second thought for what they "believe" is right.

Personally I believe it is long overdue for us to take the fight to these people directly ... to root them out, and the regimes that support them. Preferably without doing a "CIA" and arming others to fight our battles.
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dhn
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Re: Petition

Post by dhn »

What? Someone actually listens to our chancellor? :lol:

The problem is that I don't really see the connection with terrorism and Iraq. At least not the one the US government wants to make me believe.
psoTFX wrote:I can't say I've seen much increase in international terrorism following the liberation of Iraq from Saddam's rule
Well, you could call the attack on the UN headquarters in Bagdad and the kilings of over 60 american soldiers acts of war, but not so fast, the war already ended ,according to Bush, months ago. Just today another bomb in Iraq went of which almost killed an important schiity leader (at least 2 died). Basra is getting more and more dangerous for the british and the palistines don't seem to bother that the americans are claiming their first victories against terrorism. Chechen terrorists are still killing russians (russians are still killing even more chechens), america's fear for terrorism is higher than ever (see the reactions to the blackout) and from time to time an american embassy is bombed or at least evacuated.

To be honest, the news didn't change a lot, the internal struggles within the U.N. now got just replaced with daily reports about killed american soldiers.
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dhn
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Re: Petition

Post by dhn »

BTW, if I find a better way of fighting terrorism, I'll let you know. ;)
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psoTFX
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Re: Petition

Post by psoTFX »

As I said ... what is happening within Iraq is to be expected. We know very few of the most loyal Saddam supporters were arrested. They are the ones believed to behind the majority of these actions. The fact that most attacks occur within or above Baghdad further supports this. There have been few attacks in the British area ... obviously not zero but nowhere near the number targetting U.S. interests. Why? Because the south comprises mainly Shia Muslims who were/are more than happy to wave bye bye to Saddam. Again it's a case of people being denied the power they once had becoming a tad upset.
Redneck
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Re: Petition

Post by Redneck »

Sweet, you'd all make great politicians :)
I'll make my reply short, don't want to get too involved =)

I supported the war, and I want to see the country being rebuild, but I'd like to see it being rebuild under command of the international community, and not under that of the US. As far as my knowledge goes (and it doesn't go far in this matter), it's going to be under the command of the US and not the UN.

So that part of the war I don't support if that's the case

(As for the whole oil business, I trust the expertise of the PhD :) and for the mass weapons : the invasion/war was waaaaaay to late, should've happened way earlier, so logical all those weapons were long gone before the US invaded :))

(And I hate the Karma thing being broken, mod the guy to neutral or something, it's awfull to click the link each time to view his replies cause of the -1 :) edit: never mind that :) changed user setting in CP)
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benchayeel
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Re: Petition

Post by benchayeel »

dhn wrote: Well, you could call the attack on the UN headquarters in Bagdad and the kilings of over 60 american soldiers acts of war, but not so fast, the war already ended ,according to Bush, months ago.
Bush never said that the war was over just that the main combat phase was over. The war on Iraq and on terorism is still on.

And I cant find the post but I read something about whay Iraq never used WMDS. In response they did, against their own people.


To be hnest I dont want the UN involved over there either. They did not want to help get Saddam out, many of the member countries that were against war were being bought out by Iraq. Why should we (US and UK) do all the work and then the UN come in and take over.

So the UN can shove it. Its a dead orginzation anyway that has no power to do anything but argue. I think the US and UK should pull out of the UN and stop wasting our time.

The day that terorists blew up the WTC they declared war on the US. The US now has every right to defend itself against the threat anywhere it pricieves it.
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dhn
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Re: Petition

Post by dhn »

benchayeel wrote:Bush never said that the war was over [...]
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/s834110.htm" target="_blank
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2989459.stm" target="_blank

Of course from a more interesting point of view, the U.S. never formally declared war at Iraq.
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soxie
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Re: Petition

Post by soxie »

He didn't say the war was over, he announced the "end of major combat" :)

http://usembassy.state.gov/islamabad/wwwh03050201.html" target="_blank
brian.
http://itsbrian.blogspot.com/" target="_blank
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A_Jelly_Doughnut
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Re: Petition

Post by A_Jelly_Doughnut »

The end of major combat means guerrilla warfare, IMO.
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