what happened to the karma?

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Discuss features as they are added to the new version. Give us your feedback. Don't post bug reports, feature requests, support questions or suggestions here. Feature requests are closed.
MKruer
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Re: what happened to the karma?

Post by MKruer »

I liked the idea of Karma.

The way I see it is that Karma need to have two levels, a global Karma rating, something that would weed out stupid posts, and a post specific rating that for that post would override the global. The way I imagine it working is that if someone had a low global rating, but posting something decent, then it show up in the default list because it was “above average.”

Blah blah blah.. to tired to say more.

Anyway the greatest fallacy of the karma system is that it assumes the people would spend the time to rate the post.

A possible solution would be by making each replied post +1 by default
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olger901
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Re: what happened to the karma?

Post by olger901 »

MKruer wrote:I liked the idea of Karma.

The way I see it is that Karma need to have two levels, a global Karma rating, something that would weed out stupid posts, and a post specific rating that for that post would override the global. The way I imagine it working is that if someone had a low global rating, but posting something decent, then it show up in the default list because it was “above average.”

Blah blah blah.. to tired to say more.

Anyway the greatest fallacy of the karma system is that it assumes the people would spend the time to rate the post.

A possible solution would be by making each replied post +1 by default
That is also a good option, but I still think that there should be an option that allows you to enable or disable karma in case there is abuseal of the system, because people can abuse the karma system if they don't like someone by rating his posts down and then thus the post would disappear for all members, why it actually can contain some really nice information and honestly said, I rather see this as a Mod, then pre-implented in a Bulletin Board, because not all people would use. Especially if you got alot of members, if stuff like that happens administrators have no way off checking if every post have been rated down for a fair reason.
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Natan
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Re: what happened to the karma?

Post by Natan »

I'm a moderator at another board, and instead of using the karma system to rate posts, we use it as a warning percentage. Everyone starts out at 0, and if they do something against the rules, the moderators (only the mods) can raise their warning level. Nobody else can see each other's warning levels. I think that that system is really great. Nobody can bury anyone except for the moderators. Also, no one knows who has what except for the moderators. It also helps keep track of who's been paying attention to the rules, and who hasn't been.
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grön
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Re: what happened to the karma?

Post by grön »

Aint there going to be a wrning system in 2.2 or is that somhing I dreamt of last night!
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MKruer
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Re: what happened to the karma?

Post by MKruer »

More pointless thoughts

If there was to be a karma rating system re-implemented then there need to be some ground rules.

It has to be as idiot proof as possible (simple interface)
It has to be anti abusive as possible (not allowing someone to consistently mark someone low)

A way to work the anti abusive scheme is not to stack accumulate points from one individual that reflects the global total. So in essence, a thread that has 100 posts all at -5 and then compares it to another thread which has 2 posts both carry the same global weight.

Standard user carries a weight on 1
Moderator carries a weight of 5 (Possibly based upon Moderator access, the higher the access, the more weight)
Administrator carries the max weight or infinite weight if overriding everyone.

The formula would go something like this.

Each user has a star value of 0
Each post followed up by a different user receives a +1 automatically, both globally and locally, so just by the virtue of someone point a reply, the original poster gets credit
Each user can rate another persons post between -5 thru 5.

Each thread carry’s a weight based upon all
people posing in the thread. This is used to determine the global weight for each user. No matter how bad that topic is or large, it still carry’s the same weight as another thread. So Joe Blow could get -5 for the entire thread, but when he replies to a new topic of a different thread, and gets a +2, his global values is -3, but still +2 for that thread. If he does a good job again of a third thread and gets a +4, then his global value for the thread is now +1 (-5+2+4) of these thread you would only calculate that latest 100 or so, so eventual there is a drop off point.

Problem If the topic is brought back after 100 posts, I am not sure if the rating should reset or not for that thread.
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psoTFX
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Re: what happened to the karma?

Post by psoTFX »

There won't be a karma system in 2.2.x.
PUOJACKZ
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Re: what happened to the karma?

Post by PUOJACKZ »

I have posted in the feature tracker about Karma system (of course, for the next version 2.3.x). The only problem is that I'm not a coder, so I can't help about implementing this feature (if the BBS creator like that). Please, feel free to make me know about any ideas, and have a look about New Enhanced Warning System too.
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SamG
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Re: what happened to the karma?

Post by SamG »

I think the biggest hurdle the developers faced with karma was not so much coding issues but more the logic of the feature, the "how it ought to work to be fair and useful" part of the feature. There were community views on karma to take into account also (e.g., Should we be rating users or posts?). It's all more complicated (to me at least) than it appears at first thought. My sense is that because of the work involved in thinking it all through and getting community feedback, the developers decided it was best to move forward with 2.2 and defer work on a karma-type system to a subsequent release. That's just my sense; I could (as always :) ) be wrong.

All that to say, input the developers get on karma purpose and use via the request tracker will hopefully prove helpful to them in deciding the best way to approach the system.
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PUOJACKZ
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Re: what happened to the karma?

Post by PUOJACKZ »

I think the biggest hurdle the developers faced with karma was not so much coding issues but more the logic of the feature, the "how it ought to work to be fair and useful" part of the feature.
I Agree with you. Infact, IMHO, forum admins when they have to choose the BBS that fit more better their moderating ideas, no watch about the code, but the features presents in the bullettin board choosen.
Of course, with this i'm not saying that a BBS must be a total bruteforce, but if you create a forum that have poor options, not be surprise if no one choose it.
More pointless thoughts

If there was to be a karma rating system re-implemented then there need to be some ground rules.

It has to be as idiot proof as possible (simple interface)
It has to be anti abusive as possible (not allowing someone to consistently mark someone low)
I know, karma could create two factions (or more), in a forum. But we are here to fix this problem no? ;)
A way to work the anti abusive scheme is not to stack accumulate points from one individual that reflects the global total. So in essence, a thread that has 100 posts all at -5 and then compares it to another thread which has 2 posts both carry the same global weight.
IMHO, incrementing the power of points that one individual could assign to an user, is bad. Think about this situation:

- A lame is harrasing in a forum posting a lot of stupid comments
- You notice him that this behaviour is bad, and he start to assign a lot of bad karma points to you, but, because him have a lot of posts, every bad point he assign remove 10 points from your karma level

This is very bad. IMHO karma point must be an indicator that show if the user's post is userful or not. So, giving more power to an user, could be bad.

Another problem could be about inactive users. In the idea that I have submitted in feature tracker, there's a option that set +X karma level to an user, every Y days the user has been registered. But this is bad.
More better is to set this about "if the user is active on forum, setting a limit of posts that an user must do to be considered active from who are "inactive".

Someone have added a comment in feature tracker, about post counter for an user. Of course, a karma option to arbitrary modify karma level could be bad, at the first look of this idea, but think about a thing: if an admin like to fuss the users modifing badly the karma level, IMHO, that forum probably could not have a bright future.
Each user has a star value of 0
Each post followed up by a different user receives a +1 automatically, both globally and locally, so just by the virtue of someone point a reply, the original poster gets credit
I have forget to introduce this option in my post about Karma level. About global or local karma adding, this could be integrated in an option to let the admin choose if make users to have replyed in the thread or not, to giving the vote to an user. Another idea (already discuss about New Warning System), is to create a default start point, and, for lame users, declare a custom start point in group administration setting board.
Maybe could be a userful idea to set a group with different Karma point (maybe choosing if the setting is fixed (ex. a group could give only 5 points per time, or make that growing using the normal rules for default users), or deactivating the possibility to giving karma points (to create a karma group penality for who have a bad behaviour about this system).
Another idea was an option that could be set in ACP, that assign +/-X Karma point for a group of users, if they posts in the thread or in the forum.
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Blankety Blank Man
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Re: what happened to the karma?

Post by Blankety Blank Man »

i would suggest something that fits more along the lines of actual karma...
in order to give someone -1 karma for a post you also lose 1 karma. In order to give someone +1 karma for a post, you still lose 1 karma

to start off (since you need karma to give karma) everyone can begin with 5 or 10 karma, and to keep balance, admins and global mods don't lose karma by giving or taking it.
to prevent someone burying another and going along with it, only to start using a different user, you cannot give negative karma if you have less than 0 karma

and, of course, nobody can affect thier own posts.



in this way, one cannot focus on destroying another's reputation, and you've got to think before giving positive or negative karma; 'is this post really worth me losing 1 karma for that guy to (gain/lose) 1 karma?'
there shouldn't be one single person getting all the karma, because admins and mods can give free karma, and new users start with a few point of karma as well.
of course, this would be a poorer system for hiding posts (since giving any kind of karma gets you -1 karma), but it would be more accurate as to who makes better posts.
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