phpBB 3.2 Discussion

Discussion of general topics related to the new version and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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ToonArmy
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Re: phpBB 3.2 Discussion

Post by ToonArmy »

Generally you can either have development cycles that are over a fixed time period, or ones that aim to reach certain goals. Releasing once goals have been released is a lot more easily managed, and much more achievable with a development team staffed by volunteers that give their free time to develop a project. Releasing a roadmap is not going to give you any indication of how far along 3.2 is, 2.1/3.0 took over 2 years to progress from M2 to M3, not really a useful measure.
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EXreaction
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Re: phpBB 3.2 Discussion

Post by EXreaction »

It doesn't have to be a roadmap. If you have internal Milestones there isn't any reason that information on why it was a milestone can't be published.

I think most of us would just like to see a list of planned features. The rest can be figured out by watching the repository.
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Prince of area51
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Re: phpBB 3.2 Discussion

Post by Prince of area51 »

I still don't see what is a the fuss about a 'planned feature list'. How hard is it to maintain a list of features for 3.2? I also don't see a valid argument against it unless we're missing something. I certainly don't agree to the timeline because it is hard to keep to deadlines but certainly a page titled 'Planned Feature List' will not hurt anyone.
statm1
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Re: phpBB 3.2 Discussion

Post by statm1 »

I have never once asked for a timeline or any time table whatsoever.. I totally agree with Toonarmy in that if you strive towards goals instead of striving toward getting a project done at a certain date, then when something is going to get done can't be known by anyone. But, I would have to disagree with showing the dev team's progress. If you announce that M1 is finished and have already said what M1 supposedly includes then we can gauge progress by ourselves.

This is more than getting a list of features released. We have already gotten that slowly over the last couple months on the phpBB Weekly podcast and recently at the conference. But that doesn't tell us how the progress is going on those features/changes. Even if your hesitant to confirm a certain feature, all you have to do is put a disclaimer, its that easy. And I dont think anyone here is asking for day to day progress. Just say, feature 1,2,3,4 is in M1, M1 is finished coding(does not mean its bug free, just finished and ready for testing). That way does show progress because the list of things you want to do in 3.2 is finite. Then your answer can be alittle more user friendly, instead of its done when its done, it can be "its done when all the milestones are complete and beta cycle is up" and then refer them to the milestone list. And since they can see that M1 is finished they will be happy.

@David: You implied that if I watched the videos then I would see that you do have a milestone list. It was never brought up in the videos. Thats all I meant.
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naderman
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Re: phpBB 3.2 Discussion

Post by naderman »

phpBB 2.2 used to have a milestone list. After other boards implemented some of those features before phpBB2.2 was released it was taken down at some point so it'd not be used by other boards. Ever since then there's no phpBB roadmap. The milestones on that list were rather vague and as mentioned some of them took us years to finish. In the end some items were removed, some were added and others were moved from one milestone to another. I'd say the milestone list published back then really didn't give you any idea of what phpBB3 would turn out to be like and it certainly also didn't give you a clear picture of what development would work like.

That said, it was mentioned in the videos that this list is going to be published, and I think that's a good step. I'm not sure any of the features on that old roadmap were actually "stolen". And even if they were, I don't think it matters. A roadmap would clarify the direction the project is taking but I doubt it'd give anyone an idea of the progress we've made or still have to make. And I'm pretty sure a disclaimer won't stop anyone from complaining if an item is dropped, added or moved ;-) Anyway, I don't see a reason not to have our roadmap public if we have one internally.
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EXreaction
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Re: phpBB 3.2 Discussion

Post by EXreaction »

I'm not sure any of the features on that old roadmap were actually "stolen". And even if they were, I don't think it matters. A roadmap would clarify the direction the project is taking but I doubt it'd give anyone an idea of the progress we've made or still have to make. And I'm pretty sure a disclaimer won't stop anyone from complaining if an item is dropped, added or moved ;-) Anyway, I don't see a reason not to have our roadmap public if we have one internally.

Agreed. :)

I don't think any features can really be "stolen" from phpBB from just a feature list (last I checked, phpBB wasn't what I'd call ahead in the feature race, not that it is a bad thing though). Others will see it and how to do it in SVN once it is finished anyways and there is nothing that can be done to keep them from copying it.
code reader
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Re: phpBB 3.2 Discussion

Post by code reader »

EXreaction wrote:It doesn't have to be a roadmap. If you have internal Milestones there isn't any reason that information on why it was a milestone can't be published.

I think most of us would just like to see a list of planned features. The rest can be figured out by watching the repository.
though i share the sentiment, i have a different emphasis regarding next version.
it is my view that with the way phpbb is structured, "features" in and on themselves are not a good indication.
to the best of my knowledge, every single "feature" of phpbb3 can be realized with one mod or another using phpbb 2.0.
of course, once you applied all those mods, you end up with such a mess that most site operators would not want to use, but still, no single feature of phpbb3 would be the reason to switch from 2.0.
the main reason to go from 2 to 3 is the fact that the code is so much more robust and well structured, and that if you wanted to implement all of 3.0 features with 2.0 mods you would end up with such a mess that it would be hopelessly unmaintainable.

despite 3.0 being so much better than 2.0 in terms of code quality, there is still a lot to be desired, and this is where i would want to see the main code moves.

the one single "feature" that i think is essential for next version is a robust, built-in package management capability. be it MODs like 2.0, 3.0 and SMF, or "plugins" like phorum and drupal had for years, that doesn't matter all that much. it should probably be possible to support both modes of packages.
the important thing is to have a core functionality that will support it. this should include link to a central repository, automatic transfer, single click installation, and (maybe most important), an uninstall capability. some additional features should include support for MOD versions and upgrades (i.e, it should be possible to upgrade any installed MOD, just like you would with, say, firefox).

but with the single exception of the package management system, what i expect from next version of phpbb is not a list of "features", but rather continuation of enhancement to the code quality, some infrastructure for automatic testing and benchmarking (it would be grand to know that every minor release passed regression, including performance. it would be even sweeter to be able to measure the performance cost of every single MOD...), and in general, higher quality code.

that's why i, personally, don't think a "roadmap" in the form of a list of feature will have too much value. any feature that i need or want bad enough can be realized through a MOD anyway.

as to the notion that "we have to keep the roadmap secret lest someone will steal it", i think it's a complete hogwash.
just my 2c.
statm1
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Re: phpBB 3.2 Discussion

Post by statm1 »

Code reader.. I do not think an automatic mod installer needs to be built in to the core of phpBB.. The Mod Manager they are working on will work just fine.

I would have to disagree with you that anything they add to phpBB can be realized in a mod.. Because the simple fact of the feature being developed by the dev team themselves and built in means its automatically better, more stable, faster, not to mention more secure..
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EXreaction
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Re: phpBB 3.2 Discussion

Post by EXreaction »

Feature list should have said list of things they are planning on doing, like the rebuilding of the posting system, the MCP, etc.

That would have been more suitable.
scarersulley
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Re: phpBB 3.2 Discussion

Post by scarersulley »

Could it be possible to add an custom profile field that only administrators and moderators are able to fill out (like the original Hide Profile Field), but the users themselves can see it (read only) within the user control panel?

This would be quite useful when I wants to customize certain users read only fields, ex. user points.

Thanks.
Last edited by scarersulley on Sun Nov 09, 2008 2:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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