Going Live with CVS -- what's the worst that could happen?

Discussion of general topics related to the new version and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
lodp
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Going Live with CVS -- what's the worst that could happen?

Post by lodp »

I got this project that I was planning to go live with earlier this year, when it looked like RC1 was just around the corner. Well, days turned to weeks turned to months yadayadayada, I can't wait any longer. So what's the worst-case scenario if I go live with a CVS snapshot?

I've got a phpBB2 installation with about 3000 users and 10.000 posts that I'll have to convert. I've also got a template based on subsilver from beta4 that I would have to update to the latest CVS subsilver (the modifications to subsilver are relatively minor, I could basically re-do the template based on the new files).

My daring plan was to do all that and go live, then wait for RC1, update my CVS local copy, overwrite any files that have been modified, and manually integrate any database changes. How do you think are the chances I'll get away with this? And also, what do you think (speculate, rather) could be the scale of such an operation, once RC1 is out? I often read that the majority of bugfixes are related to prosilver -- since i won't be using prosilver as of now, will the changes not be relatively minor (provided it'll take weeks rather than months for RC1 to come out)?

I'll be thankful for any speculations you can offer!

EvilNui
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Re: Going Live with CVS -- what's the worst that could happen?

Post by EvilNui »

Since you did not state, that you are aware of the fact that you will not get any support, I will say it.
If something ever goes wrong, you will have to fix it yourself! Upgrading to RC1 will only get you support, if you updated from the latest stable version of phpBB2.

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Highway of Life
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Re: Going Live with CVS -- what's the worst that could happen?

Post by Highway of Life »

lodp wrote: I got this project that I was planning to go live with earlier this year, when it looked like RC1 was just around the corner.
It’s still just around the corner, it’s just further around the corner than I think you thought it would be. :P
lodp wrote: Well, days turned to weeks turned to months yadayadayada, I can't wait any longer. So what's the worst-case scenario if I go live with a CVS snapshot?
You will not be able to get any support for running CVS live.
You might lose information if you can’t upgrade properly from CVS to RC
lodp wrote: I've got a phpBB2 installation with about 3000 users and 10.000 posts that I'll have to convert. I've also got a template based on subsilver from beta4 that I would have to update to the latest CVS subsilver (the modifications to subsilver are relatively minor, I could basically re-do the template based on the new files).

My daring plan was to do all that and go live, then wait for RC1, update my CVS local copy, overwrite any files that have been modified, and manually integrate any database changes. How do you think are the chances I'll get away with this?
That depends on your skill level.
I’ll repeat what I said above, you won’t get any support at all from phpBB for your version, or for any version that you update/upgrade to -- yes, phpBB will not support boards that are upgraded from any version prior to RC1, but if you have the skill, you could do it. I did.
lodp wrote: And also, what do you think (speculate, rather) could be the scale of such an operation, once RC1 is out? I often read that the majority of bugfixes are related to prosilver -- since i won't be using prosilver as of now, will the changes not be relatively minor (provided it'll take weeks rather than months for RC1 to come out)?

I'll be thankful for any speculations you can offer!
There are actually quite a few changes between Beta5 and today’s CVS.
One of which is a fairly good sized Database change this late in the Beta phase.
I would not call the changes minor at all... If I were you, I would completely replace all the files and then just do the DB changes to make sure your DB is up to date.
I don’t encourage anybody to do this as it does require a skilled programmer, so if you are feeling nervous at all... don’t do it! -- Actually, you shouldn’t do it anyways.
You really should just wait for RC.
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Spiros-
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Re: Going Live with CVS -- what's the worst that could happen?

Post by Spiros- »

I am not going to discourage you from running live a CVS snapshot, other users have already done so. If you really want to do it, go on, but you should know that your board may be destroyed and have no official support.

The worst thing that can happen is a loss of all your board; members; posts; etc.

Before someone lock this thread, I will tell you that if you hire a professional developer he/she may be able to update your CVS board to RC1 when it comes out, without much risk (and maybe guaranteed success). However, you will have to pay something... ;)

lodp
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Re: Going Live with CVS -- what's the worst that could happen?

Post by lodp »

Thanks for your input! I was aware that I wouldn't get any support doing it this way, I'm not worried about that.

I'm in a position where I'm willing to take some risks. The re-vamp of this site is long overdue, not because phpBB2 doesn't cut it, but because of other parts of the site need to be ported to new software badly. That software is supposed to have the user db synced with the forum. Some months ago, I basically had the choice whether to go for a bridge for phpBB2 or phpBB3. And given that it looked like phpBB3 wasn't that far away, I went with the latter. Now the bridge sorta works (with login in one place only, and user insertion upon registration), but RC1 isn't out yet.

As this is not happening in a totally professional environment (no paying customers, and relatively low traffic), I think what I'm going to try is to backup the db, convert to CVS, see if everything works out fine for a week or two, and warn users that any data that is added during this period might get lost. If things go real bad, I'll revert to phpBB2 and keep the user dbs separate until RC1 is out. If CVS works out fine, I'll keep it unchanged until RC1 comes out. Then I'll backup the db again, try to update myself. If I can't do it, I'll get professional help.

How's that sound? Too risky?

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Re: Going Live with CVS -- what's the worst that could happen?

Post by Kevin Clark »

lodp wrote: How's that sound? Too risky?

Yep.
If you're prepared to go back to phpBB2 if things don't work out then I see no reason to go away from it in the first place until RC1 arrives.

Perhaps you should get a couple of the CVS versions and try updating from one to the other. You'll realise how tricky it is.

It seems silly to forego all future support for the sake of waiting a little bit longer.
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lodp
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Re: Going Live with CVS -- what's the worst that could happen?

Post by lodp »

Kevin Clark wrote: If you're prepared to go back to phpBB2 if things don't work out then I see no reason to go away from it in the first place until RC1 arrives.


I was only going to go back to phpBB2 as a last resort, because that could get me in trouble keeping user databases in sync with that other piece of software. I don't need phpBB3 as bad as I do that other software, and I would wait most patiently for that -- only problem is that the bridge has been developed for phpBB3, and it's almost done (as much as it can be, given that RC1 isn't out yet).
Kevin Clark wrote: Perhaps you should get a couple of the CVS versions and try updating from one to the other. You'll realise how tricky it is.


You're right, I should probably do that. This may be another invitation to speculate, but do we expect any major changes from now until RC1? Changes in prosilver are not an issue for me, as my style is based on subsilver.
Kevin Clark wrote: It seems silly to forego all future support for the sake of waiting a little bit longer.


I wouldn't mind waiting a little bit longer. But what I can't wait is a little bit longer in italics. I've learned how quickly little bits turn into months (that's not an accusation or anything, just a disinterested observation, I can't make a decision on any other basis).

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Black Antitoon
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Re: Going Live with CVS -- what's the worst that could happen?

Post by Black Antitoon »

By the way, how do you see what SQL changes have been made from a CVS to another one? Are they listed anywhere?

EvilNui
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Re: Going Live with CVS -- what's the worst that could happen?

Post by EvilNui »

Black Antitoon wrote: By the way, how do you see what SQL changes have been made from a CVS to another one? Are they listed anywhere?
My feeling says, that there is no easy way and you'll just have to keep up with all changes regarding the tables made to the CVS.
This would make the cvs-checkin the easiest way... I think.

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Re: Going Live with CVS -- what's the worst that could happen?

Post by VinDuv »

Black Antitoon wrote: By the way, how do you see what SQL changes have been made from a CVS to another one? Are they listed anywhere?

When I upgraded my beta 2 install to beta 4, I had to dump the structure of the phpBB database tables, and compare them with the table creation file in install/ beta 4 directory, and write all SQL commands needed to do the conversion. It wasn't easy at all !
I spent many hours...

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