suggestion to developers: please release beta-6

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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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code reader
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suggestion to developers: please release beta-6

Post by code reader » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:20 pm

i know (almost) everyone on this forum are rooting for rc, and are going to be on my tail for saying what i want to say, but please look at the reasoning.
  1. it is clear, both from playing with the forum and from cursory look at the bug tracker that there are still many bugs, with the majority of the recently reported ones in and around the new prosilver style.
  2. it is also quite clear that beta-5 is not relevant any more. very few beta-5 bugs are reported, and of those, the vast majority are in the "already fixed", "duplicate" or "support request" categories.
  3. almost all of the relevant reported bugs relate to the cvs version.
  4. this state of affairs is not the desirable state. the whole point of conducting a beta program, with well defined and control releases of successive beta versions is that the users know exactly what they are testing, the developers know exactly what version each bug report pertains to, things are reproducible etc.
  5. since, as i pointed out earlier, beta-5 is not relevant any more, i think it is clear that a new release is in order.
  6. imo, it is way premature for rc1, especially with the current state of prosilver: for instance: all the great work shs` have done to make subsilver "rtl-ready" needs to be re-done for prosilver, there are numerous reports regarding different browsers compatibility, there are specific reported trouble-areas, and more.
  7. if past experience is any indication, each new beta release brings with it an upsurge in testing and reporting activity. it seems that many more people are ready and willing to test a new beta release than people who are engaged in cvs version testing.
  8. in light of all the above, i think the best thing to do would be to create another beta release, and the sooner the better.
i know that acyd said in the past that he does not expect another beta cycle, and predicted that the next stage will probably be rc1. however, i also believe that the crash of phpbb.com, it's switch to olympus, and most notably the exposure and later the release of prosilver, are all things beyond this prediction.
i recommend/request the dev team to re-evaluate the situation, and to release (at least) one more beta version, and not to wait another day for it.

have a good one.

muse-ic
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Re: suggestion to developers: please release beta-6

Post by muse-ic » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:22 pm

8)

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Kevin Clark
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Re: suggestion to developers: please release beta-6

Post by Kevin Clark » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:39 pm

I would think they'll do what they feel is appropriate based of the kinds of bugs being found.

A lot of the style bugs look fairly straightforward. Little glitches here and there rather than big bits not working.

Before beta5 came out most of the bugs reported in the last 2 weeks were from the CVS from what I remember so that's not unusual. Better for them to fix them before they go out than to release another version and have lots of people reporting them again.

I think the simple fact that this site and the main site are both now running phpBB3 with the new style and with good userbases suggests there's nothing major requiring a beta6, but I'm no expert.
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Gumfuzi
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Re: suggestion to developers: please release beta-6

Post by Gumfuzi » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:43 pm

well, they are old enought to decide for themselves.

code reader
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Re: suggestion to developers: please release beta-6

Post by code reader » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:06 pm

Gumfuzi wrote: well, they are old enought to decide for themselves.
Kevin Clark wrote: I would think they'll do what they feel is appropriate based of the kinds of bugs being found.
these comments are completely unnecessary.
of course the developers make their own decisions. why would i even make a suggestion, if the people i address were not the ones that decide?
the fact that the developers make their own decisions does not mean we, the user-base, can't have any input.
if that was the case, this whole site would be pointless.
Kevin Clark wrote: Before beta5 came out most of the bugs reported in the last 2 weeks were from the CVS from what I remember so that's not unusual. Better for them to fix them before they go out than to release another version and have lots of people reporting them again.
you are right here. i would even say that is an understatement. this was true not just in the last 2 weeks of beta-4, but longer than that.

i would even dare to say this:
for each of the beta releases, most "correct" reports after the first 3-4 weeks did not relate to the beta-version any more, but to the development branch ("cvs version")
my conclusion is different than yours, though: you seem to think that "this is normal", while my conclusion is that the team waited with most of the beta versions more than they should have.
except for one version, all the beta cycles took at least 2 months each. in each case, the second month was somewhat wasted time, at least as far as testing is concerned.
looking back it is clear that they worked on some major development each time, so my guess is they did not want too many bug reports to interrupt the development. however, from a testing point of view, a lot of time was wasted.
since, to the best of my understanding, all the actual development is done by now, i think the most important thing at this point is to accelerate the testing, and my suggestion for this end was to create another beta version, and the sooner the better.

just my 2c, of course.

muse-ic
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Re: suggestion to developers: please release beta-6

Post by muse-ic » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:10 pm

i still think that something is going to happen tomorrow

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Nicholas the Italian
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Re: suggestion to developers: please release beta-6

Post by Nicholas the Italian » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:14 pm

I seriously hope they go with RC.
There may be... there are still little bugs and glitches, especially about the new theme. Ok, but nothing, IMHO, worth blocking an RC release. These things could be solved before 3.0.0.
Yes, I do know that RC means "Release Candidate", that is like saying "Hey we think this is 100% ready, have a look at it before we officially release it"; but if there are not serious bugs, security issues, crashes, or major problems, I think they may take the risk to go out with RC and address the minor issues later. The RC would also be more throughoutly tested than another beta. Personally I'd even prefer one or two more RCs, than another beta.
Also consider the growing pressure for RC, people asking for support, mods, etc.; at this point, another beta would be somewhat dangerous for the team to cope with users.
Hope I made some sense. Anyway, as said above, they'll do what they deem reasonable.

(I also think it's now quite late to make them change their mind, whatever it is.)

code reader
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Re: suggestion to developers: please release beta-6

Post by code reader » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:42 pm

well, i will try to make my point clear one more time, but i don't expect to argue with the rest of the world indefinitely, so i think this one will probably be the last:

in my judgment, the current state of the code, and especially the prosilver part is unfit for rc.
of course, you may think differently, but this is how i see it.
now, assuming i'm right in this assessment the question is this:
what is the best/fastest/most efficient way to get the product to the desired "rc readiness" state?
one way (the one the developers seem to be taking now) can be to wait and solve bug reports produced mostly by users installing the cvs version, until "rc readiness" is achieved.
another way (the one i suggested) is to release yet another beta, and then wait for and resolve the bug reports based on this release, presumably from a much wider user base.

if the developers think i am wrong in my assessment of the "rc readiness" of the current code, then sure, go ahead, release the rc, i swear i won't stand in your way (not that i could even if i wanted to... :roll: ).
if they do share my view regarding the state of readiness of the code, but still think it's better to wait for and resolve reports from users installing the cvs version, that's also fine.
i made a suggestion that maybe the other option is better (and it's entirely superfluous to point that the decision is not mine to make but theirs).

have a good day. :)

Drexion
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Re: suggestion to developers: please release beta-6

Post by Drexion » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:54 pm

code reader wrote: there are still many bugs,
Firefox has over 10,000 bugs, some so old that they have been there since before the browser was even called Firefox. If every bug were to be fixed before RC it would probably still be in beta today years later. Theres bugs, and then theres bugs.

The phpBB dev team knows what they are doing, they are very capable of deciding for themselves release status.

(but yes I get where you are coming from, it's a very exciting time for phpBB and its millions of users and supporters, and it wouldn't be a good thing if over-enthusiasm gets in the way of maintaining its high standard of excellence - but I'm definitely not worried :))

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WWay
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Re: suggestion to developers: please release beta-6

Post by WWay » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:03 pm

Please dont)) You should realise RC1!

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