phpBB Development Fund

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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Highway of Life
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Re: phpBB Development Fund

Post by Highway of Life » Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:48 pm

camm15h wrote:
Forum Dude wrote: Personally, I'd be happy to contribute to such a fund, to support development, and especially if it means I could get my hands on phpBB 3 that much quicker.

I wouldn't of thought donations would mean it would be released quicker, the funds would 'encourage' the team to work more on it but I wouldn't of thought it would affect its release date. :) IMO anything 'earnt/contributed' would be a bonus but at the end of the day it's not got alot of say in its development.
That's precisely one of the reasons they don’t accept direct donations.

SHS has link to some sites that work with phpBB, such as the hosting facility, etc...
I don’t remember where he has those, perhaps he can post those links to help Forum Dude find a place to put his money? ;)
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the_dan
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Re: phpBB Development Fund

Post by the_dan » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:32 am

Handyman wrote: that's relevance enough :)
You help the lead developer get a better development environment and you help the project :)
I just wish they had some way to spread it around to the other developers since people like DavidMJ, dhn and Naderman have put in plenty of time of their own.
Not in the context of the OP.

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Re: phpBB Development Fund

Post by DoubleJ » Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:45 am

Although I'm not part of the development team, this is just my point of view.

I do the support/validating of styles because I like doing it, I'm not planning to make money out of it at all, I would not like doing it then anyway. I simply see this as a hobby, and hobbies don't earn money, but cost money.
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Re: phpBB Development Fund

Post by Forum Dude » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:43 pm

Thank you for all the replies on this thread. I must admit I wasn't aware the lead developer accepts donations, I may well make one soon. However, what I was more thinking, is there being some organised effort to raise money to support development itself. The focus would be to encourage extra development in phpBB, while rewarding the developers well for it at the same time.

I noticed there are 42,000 members of this forum. If people gave an average of just $1 each (e.g. 1 in 10 donate $10), that's $42,000 towards development. (At commercial rates, how many hours of developer time would that pay for, I wonder?)

As DoubleJ noted, most developers on projects like this do so for the love, not the money, I really respectful that - and I hope/expect that would still be the case. But also, as he noted, this means they work on phpBB in their spare time, as they can, when they feel up to it - so the time spent on development is quite sporadic. With an organised development fund, a developer might for example, be able to request a (paid/unpaid) week off from their normal work, to focus 100% on phpBB development and, in return, would be paid for this.

Of course, not everyone would want to do this, and those developers can continue to work in their own spare time (and, I'd hope, even those being paid would still want to donate some of their own spare time once in a while.)

It was just an idea I had and I was curious to see if it had been brought up before. I'd just like (like most of us) to see phpBB 3 as quickly as possible, but rather than nag or pester the developers (which isn't very helpful), tried to think of a framework that would encourage and support/reward developers. But if it has been brought up already, I guess this topic can be locked, unless the developers are interested in the idea..

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Highway of Life
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Re: phpBB Development Fund

Post by Highway of Life » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:00 pm

Forum Dude wrote: Thank you for all the replies on this thread. I must admit I wasn't aware the lead developer accepts donations, I may well make one soon. However, what I was more thinking, is there being some organised effort to raise money to support development itself. The focus would be to encourage extra development in phpBB, while rewarding the developers well for it at the same time.
Not a bad idea. :D
Forum Dude wrote: I noticed there are 42,000 members of this forum. If people gave an average of just $1 each (e.g. 1 in 10 donate $10), that's $42,000 towards development. (At commercial rates, how many hours of developer time would that pay for, I wonder?)
That would account for about (maximum) 1,050 hours of development work, at 40 hours per week, that's 26 weeks, or about 6 and a half months for a single person to work on development full time.
A little background: This project has been in development for... lets see... 4 years and 4 months now... ?

I don’t want to stunt your creativity for helping the developers, and I do feel that it iss very noble of you to consider helping them out, :D
But I just want to say that even if there were going to be some big fund raising effort for the developers,
we, as the community should not "expect" anything more from it.
And I think that's the biggest thing they are trying to avoid.
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Re: phpBB Development Fund

Post by Nicholas the Italian » Sat Mar 03, 2007 1:36 am

Highway of Life wrote: But I just want to say that even if there were going to be some big fund raising effort for the developers,
we, as the community should not "expect" anything more from it.
And I think that's the biggest thing they are trying to avoid.

Yep. The reason for which someone may want to do something for others totally for free, is because there's something he considers more important than "profit": freedom.
Once you got one cent from someone, even if "for mere support and with no obligation", you're somewhat "dependent" to him, or "subject" to his opinions and desires.
"Sh*t, I can't believe I donated 100$ for this project, and now you don't even consider the idea of adding a feature as small and useful as quick-reply! If I knew, I would have used that money for something more deserving! If you only wanted to create this software just for yourselves, you'd better not have built a community around it!"
Imagine if someone "donates", say, 500$, and then asks for a tiny tiny modification or feature, that would be very useful for him...
And imagine if, after 50,000$ of donations, some of the devs decide that the time has come to change their life: give up phpbb and commit to something else. "So, once they got a little cash they deemed it was the right moment to disappear, eh?"
There's always a certain risk involved when dealing with real money. You can state clearly what the purposes of such donations are, but there'll always be someone who expects something "in exchange", be it the simple promise that devs will carry on developing the software (a promise that they're probably not inclined to make) or something more.

I like the idea of support via community merchandise or stuff like that. They probably don't like the idea of direct funding. (Staff, correct me if I'm wrong.)

But I do. As a happy and committed phpBB user, I am a vital part of the phpBB project. Remember that with no users, there's no phpBB.
So, feel free to contribute in the following bank account. I'll appreciate any donation that will make me work harder in administrating my board, finding bugs and pestering the devs until they fix them, so contributing to the development of this great piece of software.


PS: by the way. Anything but bears. I've developed some kind of deep hatred towards Bertie-Spank-Me Bear. As soon as I get my hands on him I may put him in the washer and let him enjoy a 90°C washing ride.
Noo, why you ban me?? That's unjust!! Help!

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Re: phpBB Development Fund

Post by jumborex » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:41 am

Nicholas the Italian wrote: [...] PS: by the way. Anything but bears. I've developed some kind of deep hatred towards Bertie-Spank-Me Bear. As soon as I get my hands on him I may put him in the washer and let him enjoy a 90°C washing ride.
Noo, why you ban me?? That's unjust!! Help!

I really appreciated all words from friend Nicholas. And the joke at the end means that you may be very serious in an happy way. If this is the taste of the community, well, I'm happy to be part of it myself... if only as a user, and sometimes as a poor tester! :P 8)
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
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Re: phpBB Development Fund

Post by NeoThermic » Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:04 am

Just to throw in a cent or two:
Ohloh's Project Cost Guesstimate wrote: Project Cost

This calculator estimates how much it would cost to hire a team to write this project from scratch.

Code: Select all

Include:      	  Markup and Code
Codebase: 	      135,829 LOC
Effort (est.):     34 Person Years
Avg. Salary: 	   $50,000/year
Total:             $1,878,284


Something to think about ;)

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Re: phpBB Development Fund

Post by Nicholas the Italian » Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:21 pm

NeoThermic wrote:

Code: Select all

Codebase: 	      135,829 LOC
Effort (est.):     34 Person Years
Avg. Salary: 	   $50,000/year

8O
16 LOCs per person day seems quite few to me (even including analysis, project, development, testing, documentation).
On the other hand, if a developer is paid $30-40K per year, his company may spend just as much in taxes, so maybe it's more $60-70K per year than 50.
So, yes, at the end the overall value is at least a million (not considering other expenses). Someone willing to make a contribution? :P

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Highway of Life
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Re: phpBB Development Fund

Post by Highway of Life » Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:04 pm

It also depends on the area...
I think they wanted to give conservative figures, but a PHP Developer makes closer to $65k or $70k a year... in the US at least.
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