A development update?

[Eelke]

at this stage in the game it comes down to fixing bugs and sorting the documentation doesn't it?

Well, that question mark alone tells me you could have done with an update. That's the kind of stuff they could be telling us.

The problem with giving updates it is raises expectation and thus puts pressure on having a set release date or give the impression of some sort of time line.

That's a trap you might fall into, but as long as you keep statements about time ("next month", but also "soon") out of it, I don't quite see how that can happen. Just saying what the status is now, what the team is working on and maybe some next steps doesn't say anything about the time to expect for these things to happen.

Anyway, no need to re-iterate why we do not get updates, that's the team's choice. The (hypothtical) argument had turned into, would updates have any value. I believe they would. But I respect the choice of the team to not do them.

[Thatbitextra]

The (hypothtical) argument had turned into, would updates have any value.

So you know exactly what the devs are doing... Does that change anything? Does it make it go quicker? Does it make people want it more? Does it make people expect more?
The fact is that you know pretty much where things are currently by looking at the CVS, bug tracker and commit log. You know what the final desired end result is. How the devs decide to get there is completely inconsequential. To be honest, the commit log is pretty damn close to being told everything anyway, as the devs are quite exhaustive in their comments.

[Eelke]

How techy, thinking that having all information means you know what's going on

Considering it's a hypothetical argument anyway (since the position of the team is quite clear), I don't much feel like going in very much depth to defend my opinion that, as someone interested in the project, but with little time, it would be nice to have overall updates. If you disagree, fine, that's your opinion.

[wintermute]

I did not asked for any dates or something. I just asked for "some news from the kitchen". The answer I got is something quickly becoming a phpBB classic: "Shut up, it is free".

I must say I'm quite fed up with that "ask something and get slapped like a child" attitude. Psotfx did that and hurt the project with the negative electricity he thus created. Now he is not here but the fans are eager to continue the trend. Together, you managed to make asking anything related to development a taboo.

"It is free, so shut up" should not be answer for everything. We did not asked the project to be free, nor anybody told us "it is free but you'll be flamed everytime you open your mouth". If it is all about the money, put a price and we'll gladly pay. For me, I'm ready to shell out for a phpBB license. I'm sure there are thousands others.

Devs created something great in their spare time, and gave it for free. That is wonderful. It was really great, so now hundreds of thousands people use it. This means now they also have some responsibility towards their userbase. For an obscure project with 50 users, "shut up, you get it free" approach may work. For a project the size of phpBB, I'm afraid that does not work.

Just my two cents, sorry for the nuisance I created...

[karlsemple]

In all fairness no one here has told you to shut up and no one has flamed you, I for one gave you my opinion, my take on the situation as to why the developers do not give updates.

[Kellanved]

phpBB is a project with about 40 people on the team; three of them developers.
Joomla has IIRC about 20 developers and countless members for other tasks.

All phpBB team members have lives outside of phpBB; the project is not big enough to allow for a dedicated PR department. Nor for full-time (or even part-time) developers.

The status is pretty clear: consolidation of the code in preparation for RC1. The lead developer said that in his last update: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=26582 .

[Kevin Clark]

at this stage in the game it comes down to fixing bugs and sorting the documentation doesn't it?

Well, that question mark alone tells me you could have done with an update. That's the kind of stuff they could be telling us.

No, it was more of a rhetorical question mark.

[Highway of Life]

YEEK!! 8O
Tense topic.

How odd.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with asking for an update, but I just wouldn’t expect a reply/response from the developers.
That said, we do get some small tidbits of information and updates... especially from Dominik.

The bug tracker is not a good place for "updates" BUT it is a good place to see how buggy the software is at this stage.
The Commit logs are not necessarily a good place for updates, BUT it is probably the best opportunity you have at seeing how much they work, and what they update.
Right now it’s pretty simple. Finish up the TODO’s, fix the remaining bugs, perhaps they are still working on refining a few functions.
Then release RC1.

phpBB is a project with about 40 people on the team; three of them developers.
Joomla has IIRC about 20 developers and countless members for other tasks.

Where did you get those numbers???
Joomla has 28 developers, 24 of which are active developers.
(MediaWiki has 70+ developers, 50 of which are active)
There are only 9 project team members/developers involved with phpBB3, 5 of which are currently active developers.
Although there have been as many as 12 contributors, that's 28 short of your 40.
Unless you count some of us in that 40.
In addition... phpBB3 has some of the lowest percentage of comments of any open source software.
And although that's not a big deal, it's not a good indication in the commit logs of what they are doing.

I’m happy [most] of the developers don’t spend a lot of time giving us updates, or replying in the forum... they would rather work on getting things done with phpBB3.
Plus, there is all that behind the scenes work that is going on right now, most of which we don’t know the full extent until actual phpBB3 release.
Then we also know that the secret style is coming along well... but we won’t get to see that either.
There are all the updates to the main site... conversion, bug tracker, portal, etc... etc... it all has to match their style that they are releasing.
So there is a lot they are doing that they could never tell us about anyways.

[Thatbitextra]

Where did you get those numbers???

Here. Count for yourself. You'll see kellanved is quite right.

[Handyman]

I did not asked for any dates or something. I just asked for "some news from the kitchen". The answer I got is something quickly becoming a phpBB classic: "Shut up, it is free".

"It is free, so shut up" should not be answer for everything. We did not asked the project to be free, nor anybody told us "it is free but you'll be flamed everytime you open your mouth". If it is all about the money, put a price and we'll gladly pay. For me, I'm ready to shell out for a phpBB license. I'm sure there are thousands others.

Devs created something great in their spare time, and gave it for free. That is wonderful. It was really great, so now hundreds of thousands people use it. This means now they also have some responsibility towards their userbase. For an obscure project with 50 users, "shut up, you get it free" approach may work. For a project the size of phpBB, I'm afraid that does not work.

I must say I'm quite fed up with that "ask something and get slapped like a child" attitude. Psotfx did that and hurt the project with the negative electricity he thus created. Now he is not here but the fans are eager to continue the trend. Together, you managed to make asking anything related to development a taboo.

Just my two cents, sorry for the nuisance I created...

You are correct about that… That kind of attitude drives me nuts. So I'm sorry I came off that way my reply was ridicules and harsh.
I shouldn't post when I'm put out trying to track down a phantom problem.
So you did not create a nuisance… my post just made it seem that way sorry!

I'm not by any stretch against updates…
I just don't want them to get as detailed as "I'm doing this and this right now" and I don't think they should feel obligated to do so.

I like Highway's view of it much better

Though in some cases, during development, it can help to have a to-do list in front of you to see what you are doing… and the feeling of checking each one off is really cool… you really feel like you're making some great progress towards your goal.
It also helps people plan accordingly with what's going on… since a lot of people build their websites with a forum… it's kinda nice to get a feeling of where things are at so you can plan accordingly.
Now if that happened, it would not be hard to share that info with the community… some of us already do that on the projects we are working on (myself included )

It also gives the community a chance to get in some input on it and it builds excitement
You'll find that in a lot of cases, the community has a lot of great things to say and it never hurts to listen.
It would also make extinct the question of "when".


is that about page up-to-date? I thought a couple of those past contributors were on the mod team… i.e. Fountain of Apples.
And I very much doubt Graham is a past contributor… he seems current.