Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Discussion of general topics related to the new version and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
Forum rules
Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
User avatar
Highway of Life
Registered User
Posts: 1399
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2005 10:18 pm
Location: I'd love to change the World, but they won't give me the Source Code
Contact:

Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by Highway of Life »

Yeah, because we got bored kicking a dead (HTML 4.0) horse. :)
Image
SamG
Registered User
Posts: 1241
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 6:35 pm

Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by SamG »

Oh, yeah… HTML. Dead horse. Quite right.
"I hate trolls!" - Willow Ufgood
User avatar
Nicholas the Italian
Registered User
Posts: 659
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:19 pm
Location: 46°8' N, 12°13' E
Contact:

Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by Nicholas the Italian »

Does someone bother that Google.com doesn't even have the !doctype declaration, uses deprecated tags like center and font, doesn't use quotes around attributes, and is definitely not XHTML? ;)
User avatar
Handyman
Registered User
Posts: 522
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:09 am
Location: Where no man has gone before!
Contact:

Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by Handyman »

They probably haven't touched those pages since before HTML 4.1 came out ;)
My phpBB3 Mods || My Mod Queue
Search Engine Friendly (SEO) URLs || Profile link on Avatar and/or Username || AJAX Chat
Display Posts Anywhere || CashMod || AJAX Quick Edit || AJAX Quick Reply

Image
User avatar
Nicholas the Italian
Registered User
Posts: 659
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:19 pm
Location: 46°8' N, 12°13' E
Contact:

Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by Nicholas the Italian »

Handyman wrote: They probably haven't touched those pages since before HTML 4.1 came out ;)

That's not even legal HTML 2.0, as a matter of facts... ;)
SamG
Registered User
Posts: 1241
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 6:35 pm

Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by SamG »

I did a quick validation survey of several search engines, and ironically, MSN Search/Live Search got off to the best start of those I checked. Lots of red ink starting at line 3, but the DTD is XHTML 1.0 Strict! Credit where credit is due.

You just can never tell what surprises Microsoft has up their sleeves. But really, how are people supposed to take seriously W3C recommendations when W3C members (like Google) seem not to care?
"I hate trolls!" - Willow Ufgood
User avatar
Handyman
Registered User
Posts: 522
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 5:09 am
Location: Where no man has gone before!
Contact:

Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by Handyman »

SamG wrote: I did a quick validation survey of several search engines, and ironically, MSN Search/Live Search got off to the best start of those I checked. Lots of red ink starting at line 3, but the DTD is XHTML 1.0 Strict! Credit where credit is due.

You just can never tell what surprises Microsoft has up their sleeves. But really, how are people supposed to take seriously W3C recommendations when W3C members (like Google) seem not to care?

8O or Yahoo… they are also on that list.
WC3 Markup validation service wrote: This page is not Valid (no Doctype found)!

http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1 ... hoo.com%2F
My phpBB3 Mods || My Mod Queue
Search Engine Friendly (SEO) URLs || Profile link on Avatar and/or Username || AJAX Chat
Display Posts Anywhere || CashMod || AJAX Quick Edit || AJAX Quick Reply

Image
code reader
Registered User
Posts: 653
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:01 pm

Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by code reader »

again, some more OT stuff:
1) <center> is NOT html 4.01 valid tag. to go by w3c documentation, the only version that mention it is html 3.2, as a concession to netscape (probably netscape 2, but i'm not sure), who needed a way to center text but did not yet support html 3.0 <div> tag, in 3.2, it's considered to be an alias to <div align="center">.

2) this is not my main point, though. my main point is this:
standards are not sacred, and violating a standard is not a punishable crime.
however, it is my view that you should only violate a standard when there is a good reason.
i did not look into google or yahoo pages and standard violations, but i want to hope that if and when they violate the standard, they have their reasons.
however, there is no good, or indeed any reason to use <center>. it is my opinion that arbitrary and capricious standard violations should be avoided. anyone who thinks differently is welcome to their view.
User avatar
Nicholas the Italian
Registered User
Posts: 659
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:19 pm
Location: 46°8' N, 12°13' E
Contact:

Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by Nicholas the Italian »

code reader wrote: however, it is my view that you should only violate a standard when there is a good reason.
i did not look into google or yahoo pages and standard violations, but i want to hope that if and when they violate the standard, they have their reasons.
however, there is no good, or indeed any reason to use <center>. it is my opinion that arbitrary and capricious standard violations should be avoided. anyone who thinks differently is welcome to their view.

[About Google] I suspect they use such syntax just to reduce the number of bytes. They don't even use intentation or carriage return. Also they're pages are very very light (in contents and graphic), so this is just their policy.
You know, when you have to serve billions of pages per day, a few bytes count.

Yahoo is HTML 4.01 Strict, for what I see... (did not try validating it)
SamG
Registered User
Posts: 1241
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2001 6:35 pm

Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by SamG »

I agree completely with code reader that W3C recommendations are just that, but it's hard for me to reconcile the unabashed neglect of these recommendations by W3C membership. I felt that way long ago in the case of Microsoft, and I see no interesting reason to feel differently now. I'm assuming they don't go through the painstaking RFC stages just to avoid having to read bedtime stories to the kids.

Source formatting isn't part of the XHTML specification, but a DTD is. So if the rationale for disregarding their own recommendations is resource preservation, then the recommendations have too much extra baggage.

However I look at it, the W3C membership have to be willing to commit to their own recommendations if they expect anyone to take this stuff seriously. They themselves (though not by themselves, by a long stretch) are slowing the Web's shift from HTML to X[HT]ML, and in doing so, they are not helping the Web itself. Just seems a bit odd. And unnecessary.
"I hate trolls!" - Willow Ufgood
Post Reply