Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Highway of Life
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Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by Highway of Life »

MysteryFCM wrote:
RBH wrote: Using <center> instead of the CSS alternative is bad practice and nothing short of lazy...
What utter tosh .... why is it lazy?, why is it bad practice? (and who decided it was bad practice considering it's been a standard HTML tag for years)
Lazy: Because it's easier to go <center>text</center> rather than either:
<div class="class_name">text</div> and specify the style in the stylesheet...
or hard code it...
<div style="text-align:center;">text</div>
Yes, it is Lazy.

Bad Practice: Because it's a depreciated tag now, it’s no longer standard. It's not valid XHTML coding.
People can’t and shouldn’t continue to code in HTML 4.0
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Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by MysteryFCM »

I tend not to use the tag myself now anyway but the fact it's easier to type does not make the person using it, lazy
Bad Practice: Because it's a depreciated tag now, it’s no longer standard. It's not valid XHTML coding.
People can’t and shouldn’t continue to code in HTML 4.0


Ah, the wonderful so-called standards. They're a load of utter tosh too IMHO. HTML 4.x still works in all of the browsers I know of, so where's the problem? (reminds me of the "OH NOES!, you should be using div's not tables" rubbish I came accross a few months ago). If the browser/shell developers decide not to support it, thats their users loss.

As for XHTML, besides the self proclaimed "standards parents", fanboys and what not saying so, why should a web dev be forced to switch to a new standard, just because some edgits woke up one morning and decided (x,y,z) was no longer "standard" and should never ever ever be used by anyone?
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Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by Highway of Life »

That's a very arrogant attitude, if I may say so.
You don't have to switch if you don't want to... you can stay in the stone-age of web design if you would prefer. But there are many benefits to using XHTML over HTML.
HTML is rapidly being replaced by XHTML. The differences are very minor, but the results of switching can be worth the effort. The primary benefit is that XHTML is more widely accepted in non "computer" devices like cell phone, palm devices and other scaled down browsers. This is commonly called portability between devices.
XHTML is also said to be extensible, which is the fancy way of saying the new tags can be added without a new document type declaration.

XHTML is fundamentally different from HTML, despite looking very similar.
  • XHTML is XML, which means that the syntax rules are slightly different.
  • There are things you can do in XHTML which you cannot do in HTML.
  • There are things you can do in HTML which you cannot do in XHTML.
  • There are differences concerning CSS.
  • There are differences concerning client-side scripting (e.g., JavaScript).
XHTML 1.0 was created shortly after HTML 4.01 to help the transition of hypertext to a new generation of mark-up languages for text. XHTML 1.1 is an additional step toward a more flexible version of hypertext with the full benefits of XML architecture and integration of different technologies.

XHTML is also easier to maintain
XML syntax rules are far more rigorous than HTML. As a result, XHTML makes authors work more precisely, having to address issues such as:
  • all elements and attribute names must appear in lower case
  • all attribute values must be quoted
  • non-Empty Elements require a closing tag
  • empty elements are terminated using a space and a trailing slash
  • no attribute minimization is allowed
  • in strict XHTML, all inline elements must be contained in a block element
Yes, HTML is as valuable as XHTML in a daily usage. But XHTML has several important benefits. The weight of these benefits has to be evaluated in the context of your project: Use the right tool for the right job.

For a Web designer, starting to use XHTML will be helpful in some circumstances and will certainly help you to smoothly negotiate the future. XHTML gives a wonderful opportunity to learn about XML languages and their possibilities without having to learn new semantics because you’re working with familiar tags and attributes.
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Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by MysteryFCM »

Highway of Life wrote: That's a very arrogant attitude, if I may say so.
You don't have to switch if you don't want to... you can stay in the stone-age of web design if you would prefer. But there are many benefits to using XHTML over HTML.


stone-age? .... HTML 4.01 isn't that old ....
Highway of Life wrote: HTML is rapidly being replaced by XHTML.


.. and here lies the problem - choice.

Does everyone switch from IE 6 to IE 7, just because Microsoft said they "had to"?, no. Do IE users switch to FF just because Mozilla/fanboys say they had to?, no.

Yes, XHTML is an extensible "version" of HTML, but whats wrong with allowing the use of both? (there by, giving the web dev, the choice of continuing to use one or the other).

Looking at it from a different POV, would you be happy to switch to having phpBB developed in AJAX, just because the W3C decided to depreciate PHP?

To make clear, it's not XHTML itself I have a problem with, but the fact a group of self proclaimed edgits have decided (x) is now better than (y) so (x) is going to the slaughter house, and to hell with everyone else.

Hope that made sense?
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Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by SamG »

Keeping HTML around really isn't about choice, it seems to me. If it were, where would we draw the line? At v4.01? But I thought v3.2 pretty slick. Maybe I should have that choice as well? After all, why should I cave to a bunch of idgits that decided v4.01 was better than v3.2?

But, as I said, I don't think choice is the issue. The move to XHTML is about the growth of a developing technology, not about idgits. It's about moving from set-in-stone markup to brew-your-own markup. It's about making the separation between content and markup more distinct. It's about content/data portability. It's about the Web being better at being the Web.

It's completely unclear to me why anybody would argue in favor of hanging onto HTML, even as a devil's advocate. I see no advantages, no benefits. The "well, it still works" line goes nowhere, as far as I can see. Each and every orphaned computer I have in my basement still works. My TRS-80 Model 1 is pretty well obsolete, I'm afraid, but that's not quite yet the case for my Atari and Commodore 8-bits and above. And?

HTML served us well, but it's time to move on by any reasonable measure, I think.
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Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by Handyman »

Benefits of IE7 over IE6 is debatable… just like Vista over XP.
There is a benefit of upgrading in most other cases though… take phpBB3.
phpBB3 is worlds better than phpBB2… I had both.

One thing about the web, it's constantly moving… changing… getting better everyday.
Why stay in the stoneage with HTML 4 when XHTML is obviously the future of the web and works in 100% of browsers including some that HTML 4 doesn't work with.

Make things as user friendly/compatible as possible… that's what phpBB3 does.
did you notice how phpBB3 implemented UTF8 after 3 betas?

They didn't say, well… just because iso is depreciated and doesn't work with all lanaguages doesn't mean we should have to change to UTF8.
NO! they went all out to keep up-to-date with the web to be as compatible with as many people and languages as possible.
It was not an easy transition… but they were willing to change what they had been using for years for the benefit of the users.

Why are you not willing to do the same with something that is simpler than a UTF8 transition?



OH! Sam, you had an atari and a comodore? I had both of those :) long time ago.
Then we moved to Mac :)
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SamG
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Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by SamG »

Handyman wrote: OH! Sam, you had an atari and a comodore?

Indeed I did/do! Long live Atari! :D
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Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by Highway of Life »

@Sam, because they can't stand web professionals. :lol:
It would be akin to me saying I know more about gamma ray emissions than Stephen Hawking.

Please. :roll:

Sam, remember Megaroids?
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Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by Handyman »

Megaroids was the best :)
they tried to reproduce it with Malestrom… but I didn't like it as much as the original :)
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Re: Center Tag In Phpbb3?!

Post by SamG »

I don't remember playing Megaroids. Well after Atari left the field somebody gave me a game console and a bunch of carts, and Megaroids might have been among them, but I just can't remember. My Atari and Commodore stuff was all computers, and my selection of games limited.

Anyway, when it came to an Atari game, Star Raiders was my game. I still have Star Raiders, Star Raiders II, and Star Raiders ST (my favorite!). Those were the days…

Are we far enough off topic yet? :oops:
Last edited by SamG on Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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