Browsing a topic and not just forum

Discussion of general topics related to the new version and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Nicholas the Italian
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Re: Browsing a topic and not just forum

Post by Nicholas the Italian »

If you have a quarrell between 2+ users and they both claim is each other's fault, the only thing you can do is get all the private communications between them and unfold them.
You may get users' permission first. But so, they might remove messages etc.
The only thing to clarify things is sometimes to just make an inquiry. And yes, you don't have the power. And yes, it's illegal.
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Handyman
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Re: Browsing a topic and not just forum

Post by Handyman »

Nicholas the Italian wrote: And yes, it's illegal.

What's illegal? Digging into private messages?
Though regardless, I think we decided that it would be best to have a report PM mod.
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Highway of Life
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Re: Browsing a topic and not just forum

Post by Highway of Life »

Well, firstly, you have to understand, the person requesting the MOD didn't have any righteous reason to read the PMs.

I consider reading PMs a violation of privacy, BUT if a user is reporting abuse, it may become necessary to investigate, and in that case, the database is where one would look to dig up the entire string of conversation between said users.
Although a Report PM feature would be "cool" it still wouldn't say the whole story if there was a dialog, but it would address PM Spam (such as MySpace has).
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Re: Browsing a topic and not just forum

Post by Handyman »

Highway of Life wrote: Well, firstly, you have to understand, the person requesting the MOD didn't have any righteous reason to read the PMs.

I consider reading PMs a violation of privacy, BUT if a user is reporting abuse, it may become necessary to investigate, and in that case, the database is where one would look to dig up the entire string of conversation between said users.
Although a Report PM feature would be "cool" it still wouldn't say the whole story if there was a dialog, but it would address PM Spam (such as MySpace has).


In that case, for the report PM, when one get's reported, it should give the admin access to all PM's between those 2 users.
That would probably be the best way to do it... since ad admin shouldn't be accessing all the PMs.
And in that case, the admin would only be able to see PM's that were sent from one of the users to the other... he wouldn't be able to see any of the others by the users.
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Re: Browsing a topic and not just forum

Post by agent00shoe »

I read PMs all the time and there's nothing illegal or immoral about it; they're just PMs. Most all of our members know we can read their messages and sometimes end them with "P.S. Hi [some admin's name]". There are very good reasons for needing to know exactly what information is getting passed around your server. People at the SMF board got into the whole moralist, finger-pointing argument about this very topic and it just ended up being a bunch of self-righteous people trying to preach ethics to everyone else. When Olympus is done, I'll be making another PM mod before I install it, too. It's not a big deal. :?
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Re: Browsing a topic and not just forum

Post by D@ve »

Hmmmm... in my sense of justice it is not legal (at least here in Germany) unless it is not mentioned in your terms of use... You can't name it Private Message if it is not private.
Most all of our members know we can read their messages [...] There are very good reasons for needing to know exactly what information is getting passed around your server.


The ability to read the messages (imo) is not enough to justify this. A hoster also gets to read the emails of their customers - it is not legal anyway...

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Re: Browsing a topic and not just forum

Post by Nicholas the Italian »

Handyman wrote: What's illegal? Digging into private messages?
agent00shoe wrote: I read PMs all the time and there's nothing illegal or immoral about it; they're just PMs.

Well, in Italy legislation about privacy since 1996 is very very strict (paranoid, I may dare to say).
Private notes or private communications between two or more people can not be intercepted or undisclosed for whatever reason, without an explicit authorization by PMs (public prosecutors) or GIPs (judges).
There may be exceptions for this, but for example a few years ago the Corte di Cassazione (Italy's highest court) ruled that parents cannot read their children's diaries without having reasonable clues that they contain something that may show evident threats to their safety.
Now, even if I as admin were notified of grave crimes mentioned in or even committed via PMs, I could not just open the database and look what the hell is going on. I would have to inform the Authority, so that it can proceed. Legislation does not consider forum administrators empowered to do any kind of investigations.
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Handyman
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Re: Browsing a topic and not just forum

Post by Handyman »

Wow! that's strict... and kinda ridicules.
But for them to say that Parents can't even read their Children's Diaries without reasonable clues that they contain something that may show evident threats to their safety... that's a little much.
I wouldn't mind at all if my parents read my diary... I want my parents to know me and not keep any secrets... except for the kind they open on Christmas or Birthdays ;)
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Re: Browsing a topic and not just forum

Post by Highway of Life »

We should start encoding PM's!! ;) (for the overly prying eyes of an admin :P )

Though this is not directly connected with Internet Message Boards, this is still slightly related...
Here in the U.S. - U.S. companies will need to keep track of all the e-mails, instant messages and other electronic documents generated by their employees thanks to new federal rules that went into effect in early December.
The rules, approved by the Supreme Court in April of 2006, require companies and other entities involved in federal litigation to produce "electronically stored information" as part of the discovery process, when evidence is shared by both sides before a trial.
In addition to e-mail, companies will need to know about things more difficult to track, like digital photos of work sites on employee cell phones and information on removable memory cards.

Doesn't that just make you feel... secure?
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Re: Browsing a topic and not just forum

Post by agent00shoe »

I was talking about American laws. I have no idea about other countries. It sucks that they're so strict about PMs, if that's the case. If you're running a server, you should know exactly what all is going on within it. And people shouldn't have any expectation of privacy on the internet whether it's PMs, plain text emails or instant messengers.
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