Suspecting RC1 very soon!

Discussion of general topics related to the new version and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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asinshesq
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Re: Suspecting RC1 very soon!

Post by asinshesq »

Kevin Clark wrote:
asinshesq wrote: Anyone notice that you get a white screen if you try to post or pm at phpbb.com right now? The only plausible explanation is that the web developers are installing rc1 there now and so I am "Suspecting RC1 very soon!" :roll:

More likely explanation is that they're adding the new captcha to see how effective it is.


Don't confuse us with facts...that's the last thing we want! I maintain in the face of all facts that the only plausible explanation is RC1 :mrgreen:
(And my rationale is just as compelling as the reason one poster put forth a month ago for how he was postive RC1 was coming out the next day: because it was his birthday ;) )
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code reader
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Re: Suspecting RC1 very soon!

Post by code reader »

we could do this dance until the cows come home, but i want to give it one more try... 8O
Kevin Clark wrote:
code reader wrote: -- about 10 times more work to prepare a new question (once you have the tools)

No. You just have a box asking you to type what's in the picture.
i was talking about the work required from the board admin to prepare the challenge. think about the required actions:
-- draw or search and download an appropriate image
-- upload this image to your board
-- define the correct answer
-- and finally, set it up as the current "challenge" image/answer
in contrast, text-only challenge requires the board admin to write the challenge question and the correct answer, and press "add challenge". no search/download, no drawing, and no upload. i think it's significantly less work.
Kevin Clark wrote:
code reader wrote: -- not usable for the visually impaired

They can email the admin, just as they already can if they cannot read the standard VC
a visually impaired person who uses a computer, and more specifically a bbs, has some means to read the screen, either by using braille reader, or with some text to speech technology. they can respond to purely textual challenge, but not an image challenge.
Kevin Clark wrote:
code reader wrote: -- no straightforward way to log which question each user have answered upon registration (logging is useful because once you discover a spammer you can replace the question)

Don't see why that's necessary. Once you notice bots signing up you just change the image or the question.

this has to do with something i discussed in a previous post. it should be possible to define a (large) number of challenges/answers, and have the script select a challenge based on some logic: either randomly, or change by algorithm, for instance, day-of-year modulo #of challenges. this will make it more difficult for spammers to prepare a database with the correct response of any particular board. if this approach is used, it may be beneficial to log which challenge was used to register each user, so when a user is "discovered" as professional spammer/spambot, the "cracked" challenge can be dropped.
i even suggested a quick "mark as spambot" button/quick mod tool that will do everything you normally want to do when you discover a spammer: ban user, ban username, remove all posts from the user, ban IP, ban email, and finally, scrap the challenge this user registered with (if it's not the only challenge).
Kevin Clark wrote:
code reader wrote: -- takes more space on the page than strictly textual question (not important on registration, but is important if you want to use the challenge for guest-posting)

Use a smaller image. Or a purely text based question/answer.

i totally agree that purely text based should be used, i just think it should be good enough for registration also.
Kevin Clark wrote:
code reader wrote: -- can't be used by text-only user-agents

So use a text alternative.

ditto. if you have a "text alternative", the potential spammers can always use this alternative anyway, so in effect it becomes "the weakest link". in this case i don't see what's the point in offering a picture challenge in addition to the text challenge
Kevin Clark wrote: The point is that regular VC is crackable.
Being able to write your own question or use your own non-standard image makes things a lot harder for the bots.

i totally agree that the challenge is 100% useless unless it is done per board, by the board operator.
i just don't see what do you gain by using a picture over a plain text challenge question.
plain text challenge is easier to implement (no image upload required), easier for the board operator to define, suitable for all users, including text-only users, and more suitable to be used with guest posting.
in general, it is just simpler, which always held an appeal for me, while i can't see any advantage for the more complex solution.

of course, the devs did not give any indication that they are willing to implement either of these approaches.
the whole discussion has re-awakened here and now, because the devs suddenly discovered that the current captcha is not good, and rushed to replaced it with a different, equally bad captcha. we are trying to promote alternatives to the captcha approach, and we argue amongst ourselves which alternative is better, but unless the devs are actually listening, or unless either of us is willing to develop this as a mod, this discussion is not too productive. :?
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Kevin Clark
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Re: Suspecting RC1 very soon!

Post by Kevin Clark »

I'm not arguing that one is better than the other, but both offer a better alternative to VC in my opinion.

If you see some of my other posts I've been advocating a VIP code style MOD with a user configurable question and answer for the last few days. I was just pointing out that an image alternative isn't quite as hard as your making out. If you can upload an avatar, you can upload a picture of the thing you want people to identify. I appreciate your point about the visually impaired but as I say, the current VC contains a link to the admins email for those who cannot see it or screen readers that cannot read it. A user uploaded image wouldn't be so different.

With either method, even though some defaults would have to ship with it which would quickly be defeated, the ability for the end user to configure their own question or their own image makes it much harder to beat. I think we're all agreed on that :)
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oldlock
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Re: Suspecting RC1 very soon!

Post by oldlock »

I am suspecting (hoping) that RC1 will be along soon, as the CVS snapshots have been cleaned out, and the same thing happened before BETA 5 was released .... :idea:
yautja_cetanu
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Re: Suspecting RC1 very soon!

Post by yautja_cetanu »

We will definitely be using a text based challenge whatever phpbb3 does (unless its crazy and out of this world). There was one really cool captcha which had 9 pictures and said "Click 3 Rabbits". It was done using Javascript, was fun and would probably be next to uncrackable (especially cause the pictures kept changing as the one I used was on the developer's website). However the bandwidth costs were too high and it was a little slow.

We have modded our own single question text challenge of "Are you a human?" and it works pretty much all the time. Obviously anyone could crack it but its our question so its unlikely someone will try (if they did we'd just have to change the question).
madtay
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Re: Suspecting RC1 very soon!

Post by madtay »

oldlock wrote: I am suspecting (hoping) that RC1 will be along soon, as the CVS snapshots have been cleaned out, and the same thing happened before BETA 5 was released .... :idea:


Yes, i am hoping to see it this coming weekend or at latest the weekend after. Sure it wont be long now.
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Re: Suspecting RC1 very soon!

Post by Highway of Life »

yautja_cetanu wrote: We will definitely be using a text based challenge whatever phpbb3 does (unless its crazy and out of this world). There was one really cool captcha which had 9 pictures and said "Click 3 Rabbits". It was done using Javascript, was fun and would probably be next to uncrackable (especially cause the pictures kept changing as the one I used was on the developer's website). However the bandwidth costs were too high and it was a little slow.

We have modded our own single question text challenge of "Are you a human?" and it works pretty much all the time. Obviously anyone could crack it but its our question so its unlikely someone will try (if they did we'd just have to change the question).

That method was tested before, but it wasn’t a very popular option (people didn’t like it)
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TimJBart
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Re: Suspecting RC1 very soon!

Post by TimJBart »

phpbb.com is down for me. Any one else?

A release?! :twisted: :roll:
In vino veritas
NeilUK
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Re: Suspecting RC1 very soon!

Post by NeilUK »

Its been down from time to time for the last 10 mins or so but comes back. Also no developers are online so who would be uploading if it was being released?
"Life Is What Happens To You When You Are Busy Making Other Plans" - John Lennon
The Anaconda
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Re: Suspecting RC1 very soon!

Post by The Anaconda »

just seems to be having server problems right now, i can get to it but its really slow
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