[Olympus] Has it failed already?

Discussion of general topics related to the new version and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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danb00
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[Olympus] Has it failed already?

Post by danb00 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:36 am

Ok im stating an opinion here, please dont flame me.
I know this release is going to be great and all But is it to little to late?
What i mean is its nice to have a good open source BB System thats updated. But i think [Olympus] has kind of followed up much later than i thought it would have. If you put it in purspective of the other major bb systems, like vbulletin, IPB, and some other open source ones as well, easybb, SMF, icebb.
Its nice that it is here, but was this because of an increase in demand that forced them to do it? Or was it because they fell behind?
Because from the picture i have been given why dont you say. Its as if phpBB is always playing catchup with the other paid for bb systems, and other open source systems.
I understand its free and that you devs work on it in your free time. But i think this release should of really come out atleast a year ago.
Because if you think about it, phpBB is kind of playing catchup, like most requested features never made it into 3.0 yet all other BB systems have it, and have had it for quite a while.
Ajax, soft delete, RSS support, reputations, post download and some other mods as well. If you look back at when phpBB 2.0.0 came out that was still behind if you think about it. I mean when that came out IPB 2.0.0 was out and VB 2.2.0 was out, even YABB had more features.... (no offence).
It's just that i think the beta version thats out now should of come out a while back. It's nice to see it updated with new features but what happened to the top ones that were requested? Even basic ajax would be nice and what happened to RSS exporting?

Most of which in phpBB is already in neally all other BB systems, i as a user would love to see something that only phpBB has.

Well thats my 2 cents now dont flame me for stating this opinion.

Dan

gLiTcH_
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Re: [Olympus] Has it failed already?

Post by gLiTcH_ » Wed Jun 07, 2006 10:20 am

-no flames coming from me beyond this point- ;)

for me, its never too late.. Olympus is a forum solution, for me having all the basic forum elements is enough for me to say its a good solution.. not like those bloated costly forum packages such as vbulletin etc.. yes, they are nice, very feature rich, tons of new tech added to it, but for me. theres alot of stuff there i dont need.. such as calendars etc.. they go beyond the scope of what a forum should be.

i like phpBB because they know how to keep things within their boundaries and let the MOD Authors go and make stuff on the outskirts..
danb00 wrote: I understand its free and that you devs work on it in your free time. But i think this release should of really come out atleast a year ago.
If you did understand, you wouldn't be saying that it should of came out a year ago. :)

the good thing about not adding features that wont cater a large audience is the amazing speed differences it can acheive.. and phpBB 2.1.x runs pretty fast even when it hasnt reached 3.0 (since this is in development)

i like clean slick interfaces that are free.. and if your into the feature department, maybe another forum solution would suit you better.. so you can always switch..

as for the catchup idea.. well you'll see :) once phpBB 3.0 comes out, im certain itl be wayyy ahead of the pack..

just my 2 cents :) im no developer or phpBB staff member nor coder, so I may be wrong, would love to be corrected. :)

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Re: [Olympus] Has it failed already?

Post by NeoThermic » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:18 am

danb00 wrote: I know this release is going to be great and all But is it to little to late?
In short, no. Let me expand on that below...
danb00 wrote: What i mean is its nice to have a good open source BB System thats updated. But i think [Olympus] has kind of followed up much later than i thought it would have. If you put it in purspective of the other major bb systems, like vbulletin, IPB, and some other open source ones as well, easybb, SMF, icebb.
Out of the Open Source ones, phpBB 2.0.x has the highest usage. vB and IPB are driven by their paying customers who demand features. This might lead to faster version development, but it also leads to bloat rather fast.
danb00 wrote: Its nice that it is here, but was this because of an increase in demand that forced them to do it? Or was it because they fell behind?
3.0 arised from the fact that 2.0 never had some planned features. If you look into the database schema of 2.0.x, there's still remains of attachments, which never made 2.0
danb00 wrote: Its as if phpBB is always playing catchup with the other paid for bb systems, and other open source systems.
phpBB doesn't exactly need to play 'catch up', it just needs a newer version for those who want it. Advantages of the newer version is better support for current PHP and database versions, lack of MS Access support and improved features of 2.0.x
danb00 wrote: But i think this release should of really come out atleast a year ago.
A year ago 3.0 wasn't even close to a beta release.
danb00 wrote: Because if you think about it, phpBB is kind of playing catchup, like most requested features never made it into 3.0 yet all other BB systems have it, and have had it for quite a while.
Ajax, soft delete, RSS support, reputations, post download and some other mods as well.
Repuatations was implemented as Karma at one point, however due to balance issues it was removed from the code. It might be concevable that it makes 3.2, as it is a community coding project.

danb00 wrote: It's just that i think the beta version thats out now should of come out a while back.
There is no beta version out now... least, not yet anyway.
danb00 wrote: It's nice to see it updated with new features but what happened to the top ones that were requested?
Top requested was attachments. Improved permissions. Subforums. Those all made it. AJAX wasn't really about when 3.0 was accepting new features. RSS hadn't hit the bigtime either. Both of these are possible candidates for a debut in 3.2
danb00 wrote: Most of which in phpBB is already in neally all other BB systems, i as a user would love to see something that only phpBB has.
Then wait for the gold release of phpBB 3.0 :)

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Re: [Olympus] Has it failed already?

Post by Rotsblok » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:12 pm

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ø = 1.618033988749895...
Everything has ø in it

danb00
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Re: [Olympus] Has it failed already?

Post by danb00 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:15 pm

RSS is a big thing same with AJAX. Everywere you look its mosty RSS and some forms of AJAX.
What im trying to ay is phpBB should of released this public test version a year ago. phpBB needs to really start pushing the project, they should of started doing this a while back. This release is WAY overdue in the terms of new technology and features.
It's anoying to think that this release has taken so long to do, when really it should of kind of been out the door when phpBB 2.0.0 was still in say 2.0.10 area....

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Re: [Olympus] Has it failed already?

Post by dhn » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:22 pm

danb00 wrote: What im trying to ay is phpBB should of released this public test version a year ago.
What? phpBB 2.2 / 3.0 is availble to the public since 2002. Which public test version are you talking about?

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Re: [Olympus] Has it failed already?

Post by NeoThermic » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:25 pm

danb00 wrote: RSS is a big thing same with AJAX. Everywere you look its mosty RSS and some forms of AJAX.
NeoThermic wrote: AJAX wasn't really about when 3.0 was accepting new features. RSS hadn't hit the bigtime either.
danb00 wrote: It's anoying to think that this release has taken so long to do, when really it should of kind of been out the door when phpBB 2.0.0 was still in say 2.0.10 area....
I'm not quite sure you get the ramifications of what you're suggesting here.

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Re: [Olympus] Has it failed already?

Post by SHS` » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:30 pm

danb00 wrote: RSS is a big thing same with AJAX. Everywere you look its mosty RSS and some forms of AJAX.
What im trying to ay is phpBB should of released this public test version a year ago. phpBB needs to really start pushing the project, they should of started doing this a while back. This release is WAY overdue in the terms of new technology and features.
"Everywhere", "mostly", "I'm", "say", "should have"... grief.

Here are the CVS stats: http://area51.phpbb.com/statcvs/" target="_blank ... Milestone 4 wasn't reached till March '06, which then followed with the opening of the bug tracker. Since phpBB3 is foregoing any Alpha releases, it needs to be feature complete as per phpBB's internal task-list to make its first Beta release.

RSS (or other syndication formats), wasn't part of the scope for things to have been added into phpBB3 (or phpBB2.2 as it was). To add it now, as you seem to be pushing, would be feature creep. Furthermore, it already exists as a project for the CCP, which seems to have completely gone over your head, and assuming it's in a mature state, shall go into phpBB3.2.

AJAX for the sake of AJAX as it is a nice looking acronym is also retarded. Aside from braking the browsers "back" button, putting it into the same league of stupidity as fully Flash driven websites, if AJAX is implemented... it also requires fall-back for those with JavaScript off, or those that don't want to use anything AJAX driven. Lastly, to add AJAX now would be... feature creep.

Furthermore, phpBB is Opensource and if you don't like how development is driven, you're quite welcome to grab the source code and fork it. Obviously making sure you respect the finer points of GPL and phpBB copyright, less you want FSF legal monkeys and/or Bertie jumping down on you.
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Re: [Olympus] Has it failed already?

Post by profpete » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:46 pm

SHS` wrote: less you want Bertie jumping down on you.
I'm sure some people could tackle that quite easily :mrgreen:

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Re: [Olympus] Has it failed already?

Post by Yoda_IRC » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:53 pm

danb00 wrote: If you put it in purspective of the other major bb systems, like vbulletin, IPB, and some other open source ones as well, easybb, SMF, icebb.
Well easyBB seems to actually be phpBB with some mods, its using the same core as phpBB, and its using some mods written by other people, this is nothing special any half inteligent people could do that. They are using phpBBs core, they would therefore be useless without the work doneby the phpBB people.

SMF is NOT open source, cease misrepresenting a product!!!
SMF License wrote: Any Distribution of this Package, whether as a Modified Package or not, requires express written consent from Lewis Media.
How exactly does that coform to the Open Source definitions, or the required freedoms for something to be open source.

iceBB
iceBB's site wrote: ceBB Site is now under construction,
Doesn't seem like a very mature project yet.

IPB and VBuiliten, some people don't agree with proprietry software, seems you don't even know what open source is you might want to look at http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/" target="_blank
danb00 wrote: Ajax, soft delete, RSS support, reputations, post download and some other mods as well.
soft delete is planned for 3.2 apparently, its in a recent thread somewhere, go test the search function or something.
danb00 wrote: Even basic ajax would be nice and what happened to RSS exporting?
Are you just using Buzz words without understanding them? Do you actually know what AJAX is?
Things like quick reply and fancy slide down boxes for search AREN'T AJAX they are javascript.
Not sure what AJAX could be used for, maybe it could update the thread listing without refreshing the page, or check for new PMs, but then I have a refresh button.

RSS shouldn't be too dificult to implement on top of things, it would be mostly template work wouldn't it?
danb00 wrote: Most of which in phpBB is already in neally all other BB systems, i as a user would love to see something that only phpBB has.
Note sure if the feature tracker is open for any future version yet, but when it is go and suggest something, if you don't ask you don't get.

*to posts made while I typed, grr.
SHS` wrote: Furthermore, phpBB is Opensource and if you don't like how development is driven, you're quite welcome to grab the source code and fork it.
but its sooooo much easier to sit here and tell you guys what do than it is to actually fork something and write code.
And forking a project can be bad for it.
Plus forking phpBB would likely only be of any use if you wanted to make huge changes to the core of the system, it would probably be easier to take the core of the stable release and write everything else as MODs on top, with as weak a tie to the core as possible to make it easier to keep up-to-date with the core. And of course if you where making multipule mods and distributing together your users would know they worked together well.

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