Some People Angry

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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
Doe Ray Me
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Re: Some People Angry

Post by Doe Ray Me »

SamG wrote: Mr. Morrowind is entitled to his opinion (as is John Abela). I think Mr. Morrowind fails to see which way the wind is blowing.

Consider the amount of pressure phpBB is under to shift from it's original purpose of being a core product which people could adapt to their needs. The phpBB community is changing - or at least under significant pressure to change - with a larger percentage of people wanting to use phpBB without having to aquire the technical skills needed to adapt it. Fewer people seem to be supportive of the idea of MODs as opposed to toggles.

The desire for an integrated portal is, in my opinion, a reflection of this shift. As a community, we're moving closer to a "website-in-a-box" expectation than ever before.

Sure, the "old school" phpBBers are uncomfortable, and that has helped fuel the idea of keeping 2.0 officially alive and supported and possibly even enhanced. But the "new school" phpBBers are helping to apply pressure that seeks to take phpBB beyond a "core forum product" into a "complete out-of-the-box site solution."

Just read around here a bit to see that everybody from gaming clans to semi-specialized business environments have hopes and even expectations that phpBB will include more, wider functionality out-of-the-box in future versions (hopefully sooner rather than later). The turnkey expectation is growing, or so it appears, in relation to the original idea of stable core.

Possibly it all comes down to growing pains. I can't say. Certainly the seriously extended development cycle of 2.2/3.0 hasn't helped. We've had a lot of time, as a community, to build expectations. Whatever the situation, phpBB is under considerable pressure to change, and vitriolic rants won't change that fact.

Just my own opinion, of course ...

I can see your point, But how long do you think 2.0.x line will be developed for?
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stubbers
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Re: Some People Angry

Post by stubbers »

BioALIEN wrote: Quote:
vitriolic rants



Wow thats a new one

Well to be honest, phpBB3 has been in development phase for over 2 years now. Come on what do you expect? You cant bring out phpbb2.x with a few mods slapped on it after keeping the users waiting for so long. Personally I think phpbb is heading in the right direction. Doing so will cater to more people and even seek the less technically minded users to give it a try.

So long as the devs dont forget the reason this project was born they have nothing to fear and can branch in as many directions as they want. Afterall, the industry is moving fast and people's needs change dramatically.
I can agree with that, but to say it's just 2.X with a few mods slapped on isn't really true. Alot of hard work has gone into this, phpBB seems to be headed in the right direction to me, I'm technically minded but I would enjoy having less modification to do rather than having to build a portal on it from scratch. You can still modify it no matter how comprehensive it is in the first place.

They could branch off in as many directions as they want, but if it took the current dev team this long to produce this then i don't think that they can afford to. It would just extend waiting periods. If more devs came and joined then phpBB could syndicate itself, the board, the portal, and whatever else they want. Then package it together into a complete website in a box, or as just a forum.

The main problem here is i really think that phpBB needs a few more devs, not trying to insult the current devs, just saying it would be load of their shoulders allowing them to do their job faster and with less stress.

My opinion

StUbBeRs

Doe Ray Me has a point as well, the 2.0.X line may be what you are looking for. I mean these people are complaining about the fact that this thing is becoming to comprehensive, then they can always go back to the 2.0.X line. Which the devs have stated will continue to be developed.
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CLee
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Re: Some People Angry

Post by CLee »

Mr. Morrowind says:
To just pump it so full of *beep*, 3.0 will kill the entire hack community once it hits...
Mr. Morrowind says:
Why write a hack for it if it's already in the freaking package
8O I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry. :?
Carlos Myers
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Magnotta
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Re: Some People Angry

Post by Magnotta »

stubbers wrote: Doe Ray Me has a point as well, the 2.0.X line may be what you are looking for. I mean these people are complaining about the fact that this thing is becoming to comprehensive, then they can always go back to the 2.0.X line. Which the devs have stated will continue to be developed.
Which I'm greatly happy for, as I know that for my own website personally I will not be updating to phpBB3, and will continue to use phpBB2 as long as my website exists. If that happens to be 10 years and phpBB is at version 6 or whatever, meh, I'll still be using 2.0.X. At the same time though I'm excited about phpBB3 comming out, as I'm interested in tinkering with it on my tets server and maybe packporting some of the features to my 2.0 board, and as well I know that if I ever make any other websites besides my own that use a forum, I will be using phpBB3.

Let the naysayers say whatever they will, and let them pay a bunch of money for IPB or vbulletin, as doing so makes their entire argument against phpBB invalid. I mean destroying the mod community and trying to add too many features? Pretty much any other board has already done that so to say "screw phpBB for doing that, I'll use something else" is pretty hipcritical there. Oh well.
Magnotta
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Re: Some People Angry

Post by Magnotta »

Perhaps they felt that using your name would give some sort of legitimacy to their post, since you were a former team member, rather than just "I'm 1 user out of a million and here's what I have to say".
Doe Ray Me
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Re: Some People Angry

Post by Doe Ray Me »

AbelaJohnB wrote:
Doe Ray Me wrote: look at this, What a person i talk to thinks of phpbb 3.0.0 and what John Abela said

Hmmm, would you mind explaining to me (John B. Abela) what in the hell you are talking about?

Why are you using my name in this post? I've got nothing to do with any of this. :evil:
Mr. Morrowind says:
If he knows so much, if he has all the answers... let him answer this: Why in the name of all that is good in this world was the decision made to go in this direction?

^^^^^

About you, sorry

Reguarding this viewtopic.php?f=3&t=19201" target="_blank
BioALIEN
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Re: Some People Angry

Post by BioALIEN »

I can agree with that, but to say it's just 2.X with a few mods slapped on isn't really true. Alot of hard work has gone into this, phpBB seems to be headed in the right direction to me
Stubbers, this is exactly what im saying.. you're kinda quoting me? hehe. Im saying the devs cannot just bring out a phpbb2.x and slap a few mods on it after a 2 year gap. They've done the right thing in making it a version up and expanding the bigger picture ;)
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Alagba
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Re: Some People Angry

Post by Alagba »

You can't please everybody all the time. No matter how good you are, some people will find every reason to be angry with you.

The amazing thing about Open Source is, even though you can see every line of the code, how many successful forks/imitations of excellent software have we got out there?

IMHO it takes more than coding skills to initiate and manage a project as big and successful as phpBB. It takes a big heart for people and pure altruism, which, I'm afraid lots of people lack.
Yoda_IRC
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Re: Some People Angry

Post by Yoda_IRC »

Just because version 3 has alot of features i don't think it will destroy all modding. Yes it will provide alot of common/general stuff that mods used to be used for but every user is differant. There will still be some that have very speciallist requirments and you will have to mod it yourself. It would be ridicoulus if you had a speciallist requirment to go to devs: can you put x, y, z in to work just for my site? There are thousands of user so Devs won't add a specific feature for 1 user to the board (note: i'm not having a go at them. they shouldn't be expected to do it). Some of these people will mod there own boards, or some who have less knowledge will request a MOD from the MOD community, so the MOD community will still function. Plus it really does sound stupid saying things like "v3 is bad cause it does too much stuff without me having to alter it all by hand". Also you have to realise there are many people who just want to go to phpBB.com, download board and want all the feature there without having to go through the hassle of installing loads of MODs. I am sure there will be features that have been missed out of V3, cause people constantly think of new stuff they want so MODers can do that.

Looks like the Devs can't win lol. If they don't put stuff in people complain cause it won't do something they want it too. If they put stuff in then some idiot thinks its bad cause it will reduce MODing supposedly.
kieroth_whiteleaf
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Re: Some People Angry

Post by kieroth_whiteleaf »

I like to tinker with my install, but for practicality purposes I like to keep as few mods as possible in mine simply because it makes it easier for the inevitable upgrades/security updates/bug fixes/etc. This isn't meant to sound negative, but there will be bugs found, even after formal release, and the fewer mods you have the easier it is to patch them. Honestly, with VERY few core mods there's not a lot phpbb 2.x can't do that I even want it for... categories, quick reply and file attachment are the big ones for me (and all three features are in 3.x). Because of it's ability for central login, we tend to use it as a portal for a lot of our stuff so there's some mods for integration with our other software but I seriously doubt the devs could plan for every possible contingency and make a product that serves 100% of our needs with no modding whatsoever. We are LIKELY to use a karma mod if one comes out that meets what we want - currently we don't have one but we've discussed it.

IMHO, anyone who expects phpBB to be a core website out of the box isn't focused enough on their web content. There is NO way we could use ONLY phpBB (even with a decent portal) - although we are planning to use a portal interface model to use phpBB to better tie our website together. We're *HOPING* that it's seamless enough once we're done that it'll look like we're integrating phpBB into our site rather than the other way around, but regardless it is (and should be) a part of the whole, not the whole.

I think the phpBB devs should continue to stay with what they're doing - Forum Solutions. Someone with suitable expertise (maybe even some of the same people) OUGHT to do a portaling system, but MOST of us end-users should be focused on using phpBB for what it's intended for and use other products for what they're intended for in order to create a better whole. There are VERY nice applications for phpBB in a quality website, but there's a lot of areas where you *CAN* use phpBB but SHOULDN'T. Be wise enough to know the difference.

And if any of this sounded like a diss to phpBB or the devs (sometimes happens in written stuff because normal body language cues aren't there) it totally wasn't intended - I think phpBB and it's devs are exceptionally groovy, I just wanted to point out that it's not *THE* solution for *everything*. Definitely the best forum/communications tool, and IMHO one of the better (and best free that I've seen) online collaboration tools.

SFG
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