Finally date?

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Discussion of general topics related to the new release and its place in the world. Don't discuss new features, report bugs, ask for support, et cetera. Don't use this to spam for other boards or attack those boards!
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SHS`
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Re: Finally date?

Post by SHS` »

s/responder/ban

:D
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inflector
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Re: Finally date?

Post by inflector »

At the risk of being considered an ignorant cad :twisted: , I respectfully submit that this whole "it's done when it's done" stance on the ship date is really annoying.

I mean, phpBB has a lot of users; a lot of organizations use it; and an amazing number of people use the boards themselves. Some of these organizations have to make day-to-day decisions about whether or not to add a feature or write a MOD that's already in 2.1.x

I've been a developer for over 20 years, so I know what it's like to have to commit to a bogus schedule and then have people get all annoyed if its even a bit late but acting like you have no idea when it will be ready seems a bit elitist and arrogant; perhaps even a bit contrived.

I know it's a volunteer effort so you get to decide the ground rules whichever way you want; but I also know that part of the reason people participate is that they know that many others enjoy and respect the fruits of their labor. A vague ballpark hint about might increase that enjoyment and respect, that's all.

There, I've said it. I'll batten down the hatches as the holy wrath of hell descends upon me for this heresy. ;)

geocator
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Re: Finally date?

Post by geocator »

inflector wrote:At the risk of being considered an ignorant cad :twisted: , I respectfully submit that this whole "it's done when it's done" stance on the ship date is really annoying.

I mean, phpBB has a lot of users; a lot of organizations use it; and an amazing number of people use the boards themselves. Some of these organizations have to make day-to-day decisions about whether or not to add a feature or write a MOD that's already in 2.1.x

I've been a developer for over 20 years, so I know what it's like to have to commit to a bogus schedule and then have people get all annoyed if its even a bit late but acting like you have no idea when it will be ready seems a bit elitist and arrogant; perhaps even a bit contrived.

I know it's a volunteer effort so you get to decide the ground rules whichever way you want; but I also know that part of the reason people participate is that they know that many others enjoy and respect the fruits of their labor. A vague ballpark hint about might increase that enjoyment and respect, that's all.

There, I've said it. I'll batten down the hatches as the holy wrath of hell descends upon me for this heresy. ;)
You know I really dont get these arguments. Once psoTFX did give a ball park and it was missed and was recently shoved back in his face. Be happy they said by the end of the year. Thats a ballpark. If making decisions you base it on expecting it to be released by the end of the year. Gee thats hard.

And dont get me wrong, I have been watching this for well over a year, thinking anytime now, and waiting to put up a site for it. But we dont have much other choice, unless you wanna spend money on bloat ware.

inflector
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Re: Finally date?

Post by inflector »

geocator wrote:Be happy they said by the end of the year. Thats a ballpark
Yes, it is and that's all I was looking for. I spent the better part of an hour searching the forum here for some hint of a ship date and that's the first mention I saw of "by the end of the year".

I do think the boards wrath would be better directed against the idiots who "shoved it back in his face" for things taking longer than he originally estimated, rather than those who seem to be asking what appears to me to be a pretty reasonable question, especially when we're talking about free software here.

Anyone who's built software that works knows that the last few months are the hardest to pin down and can sometimes drag on interminably. It's not a fun experience for the developers either.

I love this product and have some major MODS planned that I hope the community will enjoy. I just want to work with the best information available. If 2.2 is a year away, I'll do the MODS on 2.0.10.

If things drag on I'm not going to *beep* about any broken promises.

delos
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Re: Finally date?

Post by delos »

i agree with inflector. it is really disturbing not knowing some release dates. i have planned some heavy mod-ing and style-ing on my board and well.... if the next version would come out a month later, all the work would just go down the drain and i would have to start from 0.

ofcourse i don't hold it against the developers. i would probably do the same thing to work in peace without pressure from idiots.
but what about a ToDo list? a list of larger thing still not completed on the board. no dates, just a list. and when an item is completed, it is removed from the list also. for all we know some items could take months to complete but atleast we could follow the progress.

well actually there is/was such a thing already - roadmap. but we still don't know what is done from that list. plus it is somewhat mixed up by now - for what i've heard there will be no Milestone4.....

so no pressure but if someone has a clear overview of things that are not ready (i dont mean unwanted bugs ofcourse), some info would be very nice.

SamG
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Re: Finally date?

Post by SamG »

For the sake of discussion, consider how the whole process works here. For instance, the developers don't close the feature request list early on, so the "to do" list is a moving target a good deal of the development time. Or, maybe they decide that planned feature x is proving to be a problem (concept, implementation, whatever) and they defer the idea to the next major release. To be sure, the developers have a "to do" list (or at least I imagine that to be sure :) ), but it's probably a more dynamic process than it might seem at first thought.

Then there are the unforeseen events which drag out the whole development process. I don't think anybody envisioned that 2.2 would take as long as it has to develop - including the developers. There are all kinds of possible, legitimate reasons why even internal estimates go by the wayside, especially in an open source, zero fee project.

I honestly think (though this is just my own opinion) that if the developers could regularly provide information that is helpful and that the community could correctly handle that information, we might get more information. In the future, they may even work out such an information system; it's easy to forget that phpBB.com as a service has come a long way since phpBB was first released.

In any event, I do think the developers are doing the best they can, and the community, for the most part, has worked at being patient. We have the developers' intent to release phpBB 2.2 before year's end, and they surely are working hard toward that end or they wouldn't have given us that information in the first place. I think that's all the information we're going to get for now, for 2.2, until we get to play with betas.
"I hate trolls!" - Willow Ufgood

delos
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Re: Finally date?

Post by delos »

well they must have some sort of knowledge about what needs to be done. otherwise it would be impossible to organize this whole codewriting between several persons.
and it wouldn't have to be so terribly accurate. updated once a week perhaps...

but it's just an idea. it would be fun to have some sort of clue about how far the development is and to observe the changes in cvs versions.

Roberdin
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Re: Finally date?

Post by Roberdin »

The Group has also been reluctantly to released detailed To-do lists that contain some of their newer ideas because certain other boards might mystically create them before the phpBB developers have a chance (as I understand it).
Rob

q3utom
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Re: Finally date?

Post by q3utom »

doesnt the cvs give ppl a good idea of what needs to be done though?

delos
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Re: Finally date?

Post by delos »

q3utom wrote:doesnt the cvs give ppl a good idea of what needs to be done though?
erm. no.
in the cvs usually only some bugs turn up that can be fixed with a few minutes. i'm talking about adding whole new features.

but Roberdin has a good point. if they plan to add some suprising new and original features, that have not been discussed already, a todo list would indeed be a bad idead.

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