[Rejected] Removal of subsilver2 in 3.1

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Remove subsilver2?

Yes, remove it completely
49
69%
Just remove it from the package, but provide official download and support for 3.1
17
24%
Other / Undecided
5
7%
 
Total votes: 71

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MichaelC
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Re: Removal of subsilver2 in 3.1

Post by MichaelC » Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:54 pm

Arty wrote:
rxu wrote:You guys forgetting just one thing - we do drop subsilver2 from the package starting with 3.1. So there's no point to argue about that.
Subsilver2 will be available as a standalone style, and I think it will be available like that for 3.2+ as well.
Thus, the only point of what you're discussing here is whether it will be updated by development team, or community will do this.
Yes, I think some posters forgot about that.

Suggestions like including subsilver3 in package are not discussed here. I don't think that was ever even considered. Its a third party style, not official phpbb style.
rxu wrote:Development team just took a responsibility to serve subsilver2 for 3.1 time as a standalone style to provide graceful migration to prosilver and prosilver-based styles for tons of communities who stucked with subsilver2. Do you realize that?
It affects other teams as well. If subsilver2 is available, styles team must support it. It also makes it impossible to remove large chunks of useless code from core phpbb.
Make it part of your teams policy to not provide subsilver2 support then. Its available but only limited support is available (from the community) and certian features don't work and not all extensions will provide support for it.
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Re: Removal of subsilver2 in 3.1

Post by nextgen » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:02 pm

In my opinion I think that subsilver should have been deleted since phpBB3 is released. You have 2 styles as a base wine to hinder the work, not passing in phpBB2 that I remember.

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Re: Removal of subsilver2 in 3.1

Post by nickvergessen » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:03 pm

Arty i don't understand your argument about "have to support" at all. What do you mean by support / dont support? Does "Not supported" mean that styles based on subsilver2 are going to be rejected from the DB?
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Re: Removal of subsilver2 in 3.1

Post by Arty » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:13 pm

nickvergessen wrote:Arty i don't understand your argument about "have to support" at all. What do you mean by support / dont support? Does "Not supported" mean that styles based on subsilver2 are going to be rejected from the DB?
That's part of problem. If style will exist, style authors will be able to use it for new styles, submit to database. It would be unfair not to allow such styles to database because author based it on different style that was created by phpbb team. All teams will have to deal with outdated coding, with users complaining that ajax and extensions don't work.

And for what? Because some people are stuck in past? Keeping subsilver2 will create more problems than its worth. If some users must use subsilver2 for whatever reason, they can use 3.0, just like some users still use 2.0 these days. If that "whatever reason" is look and feel of subsilver2, there is subsilver3 to replace it.
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Re: Removal of subsilver2 in 3.1

Post by rxu » Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:26 pm

Arty, I assume that official entire dropping of subsilver2 (package+support) can't stop styles authors from creating custom styles on subsilver2's codebase, can it?
In this terms, does it really matter speaking about support job then? We will have to support such custom styles adapted to 3.2/4.0/whatever version anyway, if I don't miss something important.
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Re: Removal of subsilver2 in 3.1

Post by VSE » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:05 pm

This is why I said before - as a policy, when 3.1 is the official release of phpBB, styles based on subsilver2 should no longer be accepted into the Customizations Database. The coding guidelines for styles should mandate Prosilver as the basis.

Thusly, those outdated custom styles could be available through a "Subsilver2-based" styles forum with the tag line, "Styles in this forum are not officially supported by phpBB. Support for these styles, including compatability with extensions, will only be provided by the style author."
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Re: Removal of subsilver2 in 3.1

Post by nickvergessen » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:14 pm

just for the record, subsilver2 DOES support extensions and if I remember correctly also includes jquery so ajax is available in general

and i hope that there will never be a policy that disallows styles that are not based on prosilver, no matter whether they are based on subsilver2 or writen from scratch completly
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Re: Removal of subsilver2 in 3.1

Post by Arty » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:32 pm

rxu wrote:Arty, I assume that official entire dropping of subsilver2 (package+support) can't stop styles authors from creating custom styles on subsilver2's codebase, can it?
In this terms, does it really matter speaking about support job then? We will have to support such custom styles adapted to 3.2/4.0/whatever version anyway, if I don't miss something important.
If its officially dropped and someone releases subsilver2 anyway without ajax, we can probably deny subsilver2 based styles for not supporting phpBB functionality. It would also discourage style authors from using subsilver2 as base style, so we'll probably never see subsilver2 based styles, which is a good thing.

If its developed as official phpBB side project, it would be unfair to deny styles based on it. Then style authors who have 3.0 styles based on subsilver2 will update it to 3.1 by applying their changes to 3.1 subsilver2. Then we'll have bunch of horrible subsilver2 based styles.
nickvergessen wrote:just for the record, subsilver2 DOES support extensions and if I remember correctly also includes jquery so ajax is available in general
It does, but it won't be included in package anyway, so do you really think mod authors would support it?
nickvergessen wrote:and i hope that there will never be a policy that disallows styles that are not based on prosilver, no matter whether they are based on subsilver2 or writen from scratch completly
Me too. That's why subsilver2 has to be completely removed, not developed as side project.
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Re: Removal of subsilver2 in 3.1

Post by callumacrae » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:15 pm

Arty wrote:If its officially dropped and someone releases subsilver2 anyway without ajax, we can deny subsilver2 based styles for not supporting phpBB functionality.
Is that a valid reason? Mobile styles don't support all functionality, either...
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Re: Removal of subsilver2 in 3.1

Post by Arty » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:28 pm

callumacrae wrote:Is that a valid reason? Mobile styles don't support all functionality, either...
Mobile styles aren't intended for desktop browsers. That's a huge difference.
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