[RFC|Rejected] Removal of subsilver2

These RFCs were either rejected or have been replaced by an alternative proposal. They will not be included in phpBB.
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EXreaction
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Re: [RFC|Rejected] Removal of subsilver2

Post by EXreaction » Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:41 pm

The argument now is that, since that decision was made, a very long time has passed, and some of the arguments for keeping subsilver2 are no longer valid.

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Re: [RFC|Rejected] Removal of subsilver2

Post by keith10456 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:08 pm

+1 for removing it now.

I'm not a phpBB coder but as a website creator/admin I have a little appreciation of how one would feel about putting in so much work for it to have to be "thrown away". However, I think Arty made some very valid points... Especially considering the fact of the existence of subsilver 3. Furthermore, in reference to developing extensions /mods for 3.1, I think removing subsilver 2 now will save the community a host of time.

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Re: [RFC|Rejected] Removal of subsilver2

Post by Pico88 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:06 pm

There is another solution. Remove subsilver2 from the package but upload it to Styles database.
People who are against removing subsilver2 will be satified because they can download and use it but that will be significant sign that subsilver2 will be no longer treated as "one of the main style for phpBB".

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Re: [RFC|Rejected] Removal of subsilver2

Post by callumacrae » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:10 pm

Pico88 wrote:There is another solution. Remove subsilver2 from the package but upload it to Styles database.
People who are against removing subsilver2 will be satified because they can download and use it but that will be significant sign that subsilver2 will be no longer treated as "one of the main style for phpBB".
Not sure I can see a point in this, as it would still have to be maintained if submitted to the db
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Re: [RFC|Rejected] Removal of subsilver2

Post by DarkBeing » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:09 pm

No it doesn't. Would be simply a style for the 3.0.X line and then "fade away". If the user want to keep it, they will keep it maintained. Give it to the community and if there are people who want to have it for the 3.X line they will submit updates to the style DB and maybe "upgrade" it to 3.X.

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Re: [RFC|Rejected] Removal of subsilver2

Post by Arty » Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:58 pm

Unknown Bliss wrote:Can I just ask what is the point of doing it now?
Removing it will reduce work load for future patches, will allow to remove subsilver2 specific code from 3.1 ($user->img and associated code, which is a lot of useless code) and will prevent users from messing up their own forums.

When users download styles, they don't know anything about parent styles, they don't know downsides of downloading style based on subsilver 2 and they will complain that extensions don't work with their forum, causing headaches to everyone. To prevent that, style authors should be discouraged from using ancient code, which means completely getting rid of subsilver.

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Re: [RFC|Rejected] Removal of subsilver2

Post by VSE » Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:55 am

Keep it or lose it in 3.1... Either way is fine by me.

But PLEASE - do not accept any styles to the CDB that are based off subsilver2 for phpBB 3.1!!!

As long as style authors can continue building new styles based off subsilver2, and they still do, it will never be able to go away gracefully.
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Re: [RFC|Rejected] Removal of subsilver2

Post by Senky » Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:41 am

Well, you probably cannot disallow users to create styles based on subsilver2. It is simply their decision, however, in 3.1, they will have to follow coding guidelines, which will restrict them in some ways. And in 3.2, it will be even worse...

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Re: [RFC|Rejected] Removal of subsilver2

Post by MichaelC » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:25 am

Pico88 wrote:There is another solution. Remove subsilver2 from the package but upload it to Styles database.
People who are against removing subsilver2 will be satified because they can download and use it but that will be significant sign that subsilver2 will be no longer treated as "one of the main style for phpBB".
That is what is already being done? Except the downloads page, not the styles database.

Arty, I simply think that if we remove subsilver2; after publicly saying that we would still release subsilver2 with 3.1 after the general users asking to keep it; that it would upset a lot of people. The whole point of discussion on this board is to decide if a change is useful to the majority of users. The majority of users have said they want to keep it supported for one more release. The un-solvable problem with Area51 is that you'll never get many end users here. Most of us are either developers or mod authors or style authors or provide support on .com as such our view is very much 'subsilver2 is evil' (which is true), but that isn't shared all end-users.

I know we don't like it but a lot of people still use subsilver2, and you can't just remove it straight away, it should be phased out.
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Re: [RFC|Rejected] Removal of subsilver2

Post by Senky » Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:33 am

Bliss, just realise the difference: you say to endusers that they can use subsilver3. They have to be happy, because it looks identically to subsilver2. So problem with end users is solved. And now we, developers, are happy, too. I swear I will include style changes to subsilver3 in any of my MODs (extensions eventually) if subsilver2 will be removed :D .

Well, I just wonder why end users disagree with switching from subsilver2 to subsilver3...

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